I-Appliance BBS The Official Source for Internet Appliance Upgrades and Mods Click Here! BBS Main List | Sign In | Sign Up | Search | Help | Linux-Hacker.net Reply to Thread | Printer |

Home / Web Pads / Epods One General Post A new business model (should I bother?)

A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) escapepods Profile Getting ce 3.0, updated device drivers, apps, and even autoupdating to them to epods is not hard, it's just not cheap either. Remember epods promising all that, well, they weren't really the folks who would have done it. The company that indeed always offered these nice features is very much around, and quite willing to do them, but for a price, and not w/o conditions. Here's where the new business model stuff comes in. The problem epods had, was that it was very hard to cover the manufacturing costs without forcing everyone to adhere to their internet service. Well guess what, a lot of epods are already manufactured. I can tentatively say, that it is possible to shell out some cash and get in the epods retrofitting business. I'm free to contract with this company to set up all the OS and apps, and as long as I pay all the right licensing fees, I can legally upgrade your epods. I would have to pay people, so I'd have to charge people for this. I always thought that epods did a poor job of marketing. The level of enthusiasm here tells me that the epods concept could possibly be revived from the grassroots level to become what it always should have been, a portable browsing tool for techies that want to wander away a few dozen yards away from their broadband enabled pc's. If the retrofitting business panned out, then getting hold of closed-out units, or even restarting production of epodsone, or a similar followup product is not hard either. This business model is rather morbid, as it relies on the misfortunes of past manufacturers, but it is fundamentally sound (and repeatable if traffic on the i-opener site is any indication). However, before I start asking around for capital and sinking my time into studying specifics like userbase and contractual limitations, I have to know if this meshes with what fellow users of epods want. If this whole idea pisses the majority of you off, I certainly won't bother. So, let me know.... Btw, if I decide not to pursue this, then I'll happily share all the data about the companies that do all this (no, it's not ezex), in the meantime, it could complicate negotiations if I sent you all banging down the door of their website, asking for free software. Just as a teaser, though, to show you I'm serious... do a bit of research on the "My Friend Ebook Reader", I think you'll find the specs of that product vaguely familiar (no, that italian company isn't the right folks either). 05-12-2001 02:55:40

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) guac_a_mole Profile | Email Anything for the right price -- if we're talking < $50 I'd be interested for a full version (with apps) of 3.0 and the sync feature. Made from 100% recycled electrons. 05-12-2001 16:16:09

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) slimtim Profile Count me in as well. $50 sounds about right. Maybe $75. When the cost gets to close to $100 then WCE 2.11 looks just fine. Did I actually type that out loud? :( 05-12-2001 16:30:08

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) Pat the Hack Profile Ditto here... $50 seems ideal, $75 is a bit on the expensive side, $100 is too much... 05-13-2001 00:11:50

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) SiliconIce Profile I'd be in for $50. 05-13-2001 07:45:25

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile escapepods: It would be great if you could work out an ePods upgrade. The biggest problem that I see you facing is to get enough volume to make your venture work. I would plan for only 50-100 people to actually go through with the upgrade. The problem with marketing to this group is that they are inherently very cost conscience. There are a handful of people here that are techno-hounds that want the latest & coolest technology at any price. However, the majority of the group seems to want the latest & coolest technology at the cheapest price . To make this work you would really have to add some significant value to the ePods. To me, this means being able to run a personal information manager similar to Outlook or Franklin Planner. I am in agreement with the other replies that the price-point would need to be in the $50-$75 dollar range. Any more and people won't bother. There are too many other ePods like devices showing up on the market for an ePods upgrade to command a premium price. The other thing to remember is that many of the people here only paid $150 to $200 for their ePods. $50-$75 is a significant percentage of the cost of the machine. I hope that you can make a venture like this work. I will probably be a customer if you succeed. Good luck. BTW, you also have to watch out for the hackers. You haven't seen any around have you? Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 05-13-2001 07:56:26

Progress so far.... (modified 0 times) escapepods Profile Ok, thanks for the input. Here's where things stand right now. Based on the requested price it looks like the best option is to go with the following option; Replacement DOC, loaded with ppc 3.0 and apps. The apps I'm interested in including are Pocket Word(maintaining what we have now), Pocket Reader (my biggest priority), Calligrapher (is the agreed preference?), Pocket IE(my second biggest priority), Pocket Inbox (prefer browser-based myself) and Pocket Excel (probably be nice for some solution providing work). As far as I can discover, there is no such thing as Pocket Outlook, although there are third-party apps that claim to mimic functionality. What other apps are you interested in, can I drop any of these? Price is a big concern here, changing the image on the existing DOC's is the most cost effective way, although I would prefer to go with a larger DOC. From my understanding of the m-sys documentation, it's little trouble to replace the existing DOC with a larger capacity. Perhaps you solder-minded folks (I'm a marketing contract type of guy myself) can comment on this. If we can narrow down the rom based apps to a chosen few, it makes everything cheaper (smaller rom, less licensing costs). Remote updating, while by far my preference is out of the ballpark for this deal, unfortunately. So, I'm suspecting that the best way to do this would be to package this with a RAM upgrade kit, and pop in the new DOC while it's all torn apart. Perhaps Glitch or another interested technically minded person would like to collaborate on this part? If anyone would like to send me comments directly, I've set up an email account for this project; admin@escapepods.com FYI: I've thrown out the possibility of making any money on this deal, but I still have soft spot in my heart for my epods so as long as I can break even, I'll keep on it. 05-15-2001 14:56:10

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) guac_a_mole Profile | Email I'd be very interested in pocket powerpoint and excel... Made from 100% recycled electrons. 05-15-2001 17:25:58

PPC on Epods (modified 0 times) itsvincer Profile | Email When you say "upgrade to PPC", what do you mean exactly? CE3 for our machines is the HPC 2000 variant only, as far as I know, but there are more 3rd party products available for PPC. At any rate, I'd be in for 2 upgrades in the $75 range. As to pocket excel, people on this board have stated that bSpread is better. Does it make sense to attempt to create a comprehensive list of what popular applications are only available as ROM apps, and try to prioritize them for different upgade rom sizes? I'd go above $75 if a bigger replacement ROM were fitted with more apps. 05-15-2001 21:57:57

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) MISMan Profile | Email Not to burst anyones bubble, but the licensing alone would be more than the $50 for the new CE. There is no such thing as an OS upgrade price on CE. As a business/marketing type myself, the risk of sponsoring such a venture and the piracy implications on the individual that would facilitate the monetary exchange are too high, and the raw price to be legit would be more than the $50 mentioned. The good news on the bright side is that HPC2K platform has Pocket Outlook (It DOES Exist!!!), Powerpoint, Excel, Word, calligrapher, and Terminal Server client built in on the image, so depending on the price, it could be a winner. I have many CE devices, and trust me, all NORMAL CE units have Pocket Outlook on it. Regards, Peter 05-15-2001 23:01:17

RE:MISman (modified 0 times) escapepods Profile The CE 3.0 license comes in under $20 per piece for even 10 pack quantities. The other principl expense is paying for the platform specific build. I'm still waiting on the price quote for that, but I'm expecting it to be reasonable and in line with a 100 unit payback. This company has worked with epods before, and should have ready access to the requisite driver info. Epods is well within the design range to use 3.0. As to what variant, well pardon if I use the improper term. From the price standpoint, all that is discussed is "3.0". You may be right about the cost of the other applications, however. We'll have to see what MS has to say. I don't see $50 as the drop out price for the upgrade, rather it's a baseline that we'd all like to see happen. They don't sell these applications by themselves to consumers, and I don't have any magic pixie dust to make them take this deal. However, to begin the process, I need to have a firm set of applications for the wish list. On our side, CE is not a booming market right now. As to piracy, that is a contract issue. I will only be distributing legal copies of software, and anyone that illegally distributes them will be undercutting not only my investment, but Microsoft's and can expect to hear from some lawyers (theirs, not mine, I don't have any lawyers, they eat too much lawyer-chow.) Not to stifle your input, input is good, good input, good! Besides, I can't break any promises, I haven't made any :) 05-16-2001 08:57:51

RE:Input (modified 0 times) escapepods Profile I should have titled my last post as re:Input, as it addressed 2 posts, not just MIS's. Pardon for that, and the sausage-making like process that is involved here. If I knew it all, I'd be making these machines rather than trying to upgrade them. :) BTW, it occurs to me that some of you may have already attempted some of this. If so, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let me know your experience. The more knowledge the better. I'm basing my opinions on the viability of this on experiences from the standard PC OEM perspective that I have worked in. So far, I should add, all the folks whom I have discussed this with in official capacities have been supportive and encouraging. Best Regards 05-16-2001 09:08:45

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) MemoryGuy Profile I just bought an ePods with the Hack hoping to use it as a replacement to Audrey which I thought I was going to have to return to 3COM. (On a side note, 3COM just told my wife they are going to give us the credit now WITHOUT having to return Audrey). My biggest need on the ePod is a good Calendar/Contacts capability. Pocket Outlook would be perfect. The other functionality I would love is snyc capability with my Cassiopeia E125 and EM500. I would be willing to pay $50-$100 for some type of upgrade to give me these capabilities. The ACT solution seems to be intended for a smaller screen and looks a little scrappy on my ePod. Any suggestions on how to improve this would be greatly appreciated!! 05-16-2001 09:47:35

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) wireless Profile A few things... 1) I think $50 for PocketPC (CEv3) is reasonable. 2) I think $60 for a Mem upgrade reasonable since it is a custom job. 3) I think $100 is reasonable for both. 05-16-2001 11:21:05

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) SiliconIce Profile Would it be possible to obtain NEW DOC boards? I would like to keep my existing 2.12 DOC in case for some reason I would need it or had a problem with the custom CE3. I have only 1 ePods so others here with stacks of them may not care so much, but I think a seperate DOC board would work best if possible...And it could also contain a larger ROM chip as well. BTW, what software is out there that would be the killer app for CE3 (besides Outlook)? What software would justify this $60 upgrade? 05-16-2001 14:08:21

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) SiliconIce Profile Would it be possible to obtain NEW DOC boards? I would like to keep my existing 2.12 DOC in case for some reason I would need it or had a problem with the custom CE3. I have only 1 ePods so others here with stacks of them may not care so much, but I think a seperate DOC board would work best if possible...And it could also contain a larger ROM chip as well. BTW, what software is out there that would be the killer app for CE3 (besides Outlook)? What software would justify this $~50-100 upgrade? 05-16-2001 14:08:34

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) guac_a_mole Profile | Email Well, if it is a true full version of 3.0, there are oodles of software out there. Just imagine, no more, "####, this doesn't work because epods doesn't have (file) on the ROM chip." As previously discussed, a syncing-enabled PIM is a killer-app-to-be. But since there are numerous sites with a bungholeload full of ce software, there might be others waiting in the wings... Made from 100% recycled electrons. 05-16-2001 22:50:31

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) swan Profile IMO, the biggies are the PIM apps, calendar, contacts, etc. Stuff like Calligrapher is a must have, but it sure doesn't need to be taking up DOC space. I think I'd go for $50 as well, not sure about $75 though. 05-19-2001 00:52:48

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) escapepods Profile Bad News, The folks I had believed to hold source on the EPODS did not afterall. I'm very sorry to have gotten people's hopes up. When it came down to discussing price, they quoted $100k, as they would be developing from scratch. So, while it's true that they COULD do it, there's certainly no way any of us are going to swing that kind of bill. So, that leaves a low cost upgrade in the hands of ezex, who has already declined. The only other alternative is a benevolent programmer investing the time to develop the required device drivers. Anyway, I have learned an awful lot about the EPODS and mobile devices in general. Here's a quick primer to help out the next poor soul with big dreams; Epods uses a modified 4x00 series MIPS processor, known specifically as 3922. It poses no difficulties at all, as Platform Builder is designed to work with it(and about a dozen other processors). The difficulties come in providing drivers for the other components, particularly the lcd touch screen, which is a custom design and NOT the same as various reference platforms out there. Buying CE licenses is the epitome of easy, you can call any number of suppliers and buy as little as 10 packs, at under $200. Loading the image on rom is most easily done by buying an m-sys evaluation board, which is an isa board for standard pc's which you can plug the DOC into for programming. As far as the apps go, I'll post any follow up I get from MS as well. I became a "Microsoft Mobile Business Solutions Partner" and requested information. It was a lengthy application, but in truth, given the state of CE right now, I think they just about accept anyone who bothers. They have not responded to my request for apps yet. The partner program seems to be geared towards folks developing software for major producers hardware. BTW, on a sidenote, the NADAPC folks seemed to have been working with ezex on a strongarm(different processor) based webpad, though it did look a lot like EPODS, it's ROM wouldn't have helped either. So I think it's safe to say that the current hacks discussed here are about as good as can be expected for our cute but non-gracefully aging webpads. Feel free to post any additional questions to the thread, but I have my answer now... I shouldn't bother :( Ah well, an excellent excuse to go buy a new toy... hmm, transmeta webpad, yeah, that sounds fun.... Escapepods 05-19-2001 01:43:09

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) Shamus Profile Well thanks for your excellent work! Im definetly one who loves to learn new information, especially hard facts and technical figures. I love my epods, i sunk quite a bit into a W-LAN and compact flash. Id have to say its a great toy that still to this day constantly amazes me. After installing Terminal Server onto my LAN, it seems anything is possible to run at almost full speed ANYWHERE in my apt. Very cool. It gives me awesome bragging rights with friends and at school. The games are fun, especially ICBM, Monopoly, Chess and Backgammon. I expect the future to hold lighter, faster, brighter wedpads for the general public at large. Which will be great, but i know for a fact it will be a long time before these future webpads come anywhere near 300$!!!! I am so glad I found out about these from a friend. And glad i met this wonderful, and pleasant BBS. Cheers from Orlando. 05-19-2001 09:44:48

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) guac_a_mole Profile | Email Yeah, thanks for trying for us. I'd be far too lazy to do what you did. But this still sucks! Even if the resale value would not go up directly, being able to sell my PalmPilot would save me more money as a result of a workable syncable upgrade. Made from 100% recycled electrons. 05-19-2001 09:57:21

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) bystander Profile guac_a_mole Have you tried PalmPilot emulator? http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/8604/Beta/PilotCE/ 05-19-2001 13:04:28

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) guac_a_mole Profile | Email Wow...sounds cool. I'll try it tonight after dinner...thanks for the link!! Made from 100% recycled electrons. 05-19-2001 16:16:24

escapepods Don't give up yet.... (modified 0 times) itsvincer Profile | Email There may be another source for the appropriate source code for the ePods... It very closely resembles ( can't say for sure that it is exactly the same unit since I've never seen one up close.) the Toshiba Juno reference design, which has a complete development kit available direct from toshiba, including device drivers. Would this be enough to do what needs to be done? 05-19-2001 22:08:00

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) Calvin2 Profile Were you not reading -- although the processor might be the same, epods is a different configuration of LCD, USB ports, etc. all of which would require custom source device drivers in the platform. It is not just a question of getting the right build, it would be completely custom as a build of 3.0 with all of the components in the epods almost surely does not yet exist. 05-20-2001 08:12:31

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) itsvincer Profile | Email It doesn't say that in that much level of detail, so I wasn't sure. Not having seen a juno, how could I know? Additionally, many companies take the refernce design and use as is, subsituting loewer cost parts where appropriate, and making few, if any, other changes. 05-20-2001 14:37:04

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) Wirelessly_from_ePod Profile You are correct, the Juno reference platform "IS" the ePods... All I/O provided by the ePods is contained in the companion ASIC (TC6358TB) of the TAEC CPU (TMPR3922/3927). In fact, the TC6358TB chip also provides (not used by the ePods) SmartMedia and VGA CRT interfaces. I started discussions with TAEC to obtain a Juno board, however, I ran out of 'bandwidth' with my new startup company and had to drop the efforts. As can be seen by the following: URL http://www.cetj.com/cgi-bin/newsstory.pl?p_jl9.htm The Juno reference was priced at US$6000 each and when purchased with the TAK should have all the drivers one would need to accomplish the new WinCE build... Hopefully, this helps... I would expect that a well crafted justification for needing the Juno Board for a "short-term evaluation" (with the accompanying volume projections for product rollout) would be positively received... P.S. TAEC => Toshiba America Electronic Components, Inc. TAK => Toshiba Adaptation Kit Regards, Wirelessly_from_ePods. 05-21-2001 21:07:02

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) escapepods Profile http://doc.semicon.toshiba.co.jp/cos/english/page/tak/tak.htm is the link to the toshiba adaptation kit for the Juno Reference Platform. By my understanding, this would help significantly in upgrading the epods, but there is still important differences that would have to be overcome. The epods is NOT the Juno Reference Platform; It is BASED on the Juno Reference Platform. Oh, on another note, I believe an important fact is not well understood here. I grasped this after my last post. The upgrade that people are asking for is not necessarily to CE 3.0, but rather to HPC-PRO 3.0, which is an interface upgrade to CE 2.x . Unfortunately, the only people who I can verify as having gotten rights to this interface from Microsoft are huge companies like COMPAQ. I've still gotten no response from MS on my request for pricing on it. I suspect they won't even share the price unless convinced a client would be able to pay it. The old "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" principle. Well, keep the info coming though, I'd love to be wrong on this topic. 05-21-2001 22:38:14

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) NoGood Profile | Email escapepods, Would you contact me directly at gtyson@talondigital.com? My company is working on a project that will involve epod like units and I would like to discuss what you found out about get units made and the possibility of you working with us. 06-27-2001 23:11:16

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) fysa Profile Is it common knowledge here that Ezex are the creators of the EpodsOne unit? I didn't see you mention that in this thread.. http://www.ezex.co.kr/home.html Theirs is running WinCE 2.12 by the numbers on their site. If you want to port 3.0 to it, you start with their 2.x drivers. They won't be much different. I've talked to them before on getting these devices built for our company, and the price just wasn't there. I don't think ePods picked a partner that was strong enough to lean a little in making room for real marketing funds.. if the WebTV sold, there's really no reason why the ePods shouldn't, except that they didn't give it a real chance by actually marketing it how they should have.. (at all?) They were based locally here (Seattle-area) and I've talked to one of their founders (who is now moved on to IT development) before -- they just made one bad decision after another. They purchased an ISP instead of building their own (it's not tough--call MegaPOP or UUNET and you're national in 30 minutes) and ran it into the ground with way too much money coming out of their asses.. The guy I talked to, I wouldn't want him running my company either. I believe Sony has a decent WebPad coming out for a few hundred soon.. once we get the big players coming out with real 2nd and 3rd generation WebPads, we'll see the prices drop. The hardware is cheap.. it's the design (those plastic cases cost a mint to design, mold, and build. You would really be surprised) and R&D that are expensive. Unfortunately small companies and startups feel more inclined to reap these costs off the first run, and don't have room for write-offs like the big boys do, thus they end up losing when the competitor's next generation comes around and the market value drops through the floor. I guess I should have a point to all of this. Talk to the original designers -- not to their marketing, but find a tech in the background that you can mail directly. He'll help you out. I don't know if I would spend too much time on this unit, but that's your decision. The processor is decent, the RAM is decent, the CF is okay, the screen isn't bad, it's cheap.. but it's only a matter of time before we're dumped with another surplus failed WebPad device. If you look, there are plenty others out there right now in the 300-400 range. (your ePod + shipping + mods + time, etc) -- there will always be another hack. .. I just saw some Ricoh WebPad for $350 that had an integrated CD-ROM drive. Now that would be fun to take apart. (CD-ROM = ATAPI? = IDE? Laptop HD? Portable VCD? MP3 CDs? .. etc, etc ..) Take care, fysa 07-16-2001 00:32:58

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) LD37 Profile "If you look, there are plenty others out there right now in the 300-400 range. (your ePod + shipping + mods + time, etc) -- there will always be another hack." so, in other words, we should never ever bother hacking anything because something newer will always come out...hell, let's not buy a new computer either because a new one is only a few months away...and new cars are released once a year or more, better not buy one Everex Communications already has this hardware running CE 3.0...no need to port any drivers or other such nonsense...we just need to get a hold of one of theirs when it hits the market http://www.everexcomm.com/products/everpad/everpad.html 07-16-2001 09:53:28

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) tanasta Profile So I'm sure what is on everyone's mind now (or at least those who still check this ePod's forum anymore) is when are these coming out? Who can get one and who can supply information about hacking/upgrading our old CE 2.0 ePods? And is Everex really supplying CE 3.0? Because other companies have said that but actually mean 2.0. And also, when referring to CE 3.0, we're all supposed to say PocketPC now. Just something I noticed. Let's keep this forum going, it's getting boring in here. me, tanasta 07-16-2001 13:23:52

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) TheCodeFoundry Profile tanasta, Actually that is incorrect. Windows CE 3.0 doesn't necessarily imply PocketPC, whereas PocketPC implies Windows CE 3.0. PocketPC is a packaging option of Windows CE 3.0. While PocketPC is running Windows CE 3.0 underneath, it is a different shell and has Pocket versions of Office applications bundled in the ROM, such as PocketWord, PocketExcel, PocketOutlook, etc. Windows CE 3.0 is an operating system and devices can be based upon it without being PocketPC, see the HP 720, or the newest Casio. PocketPCs have a screen size of 320x240, while Windows CE 3.0 devices don't have that limitation. Handheld PC 2000 is just an updated specification/version of Windows CE 3.0 with newer drivers,etc. The next version of Win CE is codenamed Talisker and should be out late this year. Regards, todd 07-17-2001 22:45:26

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) tanasta Profile Actually I'm glad to find constructive stuff like your earlier comment. I just didn't know that. Although, that doesn't necessarily negate the statement I made earlier that maybe everex either has a typo or can change their minds anytime. Anyhow, so anyone have any news on this? 07-18-2001 02:34:27

RE:A new business model (should I bother?) (modified 0 times) Vampire_Bat Profile I read a previous post which said that basic hardware for the epods is not expensive but the plastic case requires huge investment. I enquired locally and gound out that a similar shell can be carved out of wood though a bit thicker and hence heavier. But I think even with a wooden texture epods will look great. I am really looking forward for webpads which are affordable. Thanks, 07-23-2001 02:46:49

Reply to Thread | Printer | All times are PST Powered by UltraBoard v1.62

I-Appliance BBS General - NEWS, Breaking NEWS - linux-hacker.net BBS on CD Questions - User Groups in Your Town - E-Bay, Yahoo Auction LINKS ONLY (MODERATED) - Jokes & Humor - usdtv box I-Opener Areas - I-Opener General Posts - I-Opener Technical Stuff - I-Opener Technical Info Reference (MODERATED) WebSurfer Areas - WebSurfer General Posts - WebSurfer Technical Stuff - WebSurfer Technical Info Reference (MODERATED) Other I-Appliances - Virgin Webplayer - WebPal - MailStation - 3Com Audrey - ThinkNIC / Oracle NIC - Gateway/AOL Connected Touch Pad - Philips/AOL-TV - ACER NT-150 STB - MSN Companion - Compaq IA - Emachines IA - IBM NetVista IA - Intel dot.station - MSNTV2 Network Computers - Fujitsu-Siemens Scovery Linux Net Computers - GallantWeb Server Consoles - Dreamcast - xbox hacking Web Pads - Epods One General Post - Panasonic CF-01 - Fujitsu Stylistic 1200 - Cybiko Thin Clients - Thin Clients DigitalVideoRecorders - DTV Recorders, Replay, TiVo, Etc... - Tivo Hacks Linux - Midori Linux General Board - ITX MotherBoards Single Board Computers - Earth Computers mARMalade Elite Member Area MISC Areas - The Swap Meet WE TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY TRANSACTION HERE AND NO COMMERCIAL POST PERIOD !!! - Wireless Net - Cameras - Robotics - Routers/Gateways - Mattel JuiceBox