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Cartridge slot physical specs
What are the physical specs of the Cartridge slot.

New MessageCartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
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I was looking for the physical specs of the cartridge slot. I'm looking
the demensions of the cardedge, as well as the pad sizes and spacing.
I am trying to reproduce the cartridge PCB. Well just the cardedge part.
I want to reproduce the cardedge within ExpressPCB's software. If you
know where I can find the edge (header) libs for ExpressPCB or the physical
(exact) specs please post.

From the WiKi:
Cartridge slot is a single sided 22 pin cardedge expansion header

Is this a standard size? If so is there a data sheet around?

sfranzyshen

01-13-2006 22:29:11

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) prpplague
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I was looking for the physical specs of the cartridge slot. I'm looking the demensions of the cardedge, as well as the pad sizes and spacing.

i don't anyone has actually posted those specs. i'll see if i can find time this week to do the measurements and post them on the elinux wiki.

Cartridge slot is a single sided 22 pin cardedge expansion header, is this a standard size? If so is there a data sheet around?

no, from what i can tell this is not a standard card edge. having a board house manufactuer one shouldn't be a problem, other than the fact that the board is thinner than the pcb that usually comes from the pcb shops.


thanks
prpplague

01-16-2006 07:46:54

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
Profile
First let me say A huge thank you to prpplague and others.
Without their work, my juicebox would just be in some pile
somewhere. Anyway ....

Here is what I came up with ...

|-- A --|-B-|
________ ________ ________ -------
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| P | s | P | s * s | P | |
| A | p | A | p * p | A | |
| D | a | D | a * a | D |
| | c | | c * c | |
| 1 | e | 2 | e * e | 22 | C
| | | | * | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | | | * | | |
-------- -------- -------- ------
| | | |

| | | |

| |
|-- D --|
| |

|--------------- E -----------------|

A) Width of PAD
B) Width of space
C) Hight of PAD
D) On-Center spacing*
E) Start of first pad to end of last pad

If you know the PAD width (A) and the on-
center spacing (D), then you should have
the space width (B) figured out.(D-A=B,
A+B=D, D-B=A) Also, you can get D
if I know E (D=(E/22)) And finally,
E=(A*22)+(B*21).

Here Is what I came up with, but I do not
have very accurate messuring device(s).

A) 0.033"
B) 0.016"
C) 0.250"
D) 0.048"
E) 1.062"

I will try and printout a sample and checkit
againts a real cardedge later ...

Thanks
sfranzyshen

01-16-2006 12:09:00

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
Profile
Last message stripped the spaces ... sorry ... try this ...

<PRE>
|-- A --|-B-|
________ ________ ________ -------
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| P | s | P | s * s | P | |
| A | p | A | p * p | A | |
| D | a | D | a * a | D |
| | c | | c * c | |
| 1 | e | 2 | e * e | 22 | C
| | | | * | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | | | * | | |
| | | | * | | |
| | | | | | * | | |
-------- -------- -------- ------
| | | |

| | | |

| |
|-- D --|
| |

|--------------- E -----------------|

</PRE>

01-16-2006 12:14:01

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
Profile
Dammm! How can one post ASCI without stripping spaces ;(
01-16-2006 12:15:42

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) keith721
Profile
Use the code tag instead of pre and place period . characters where you would use spaces. It should become visible.
01-16-2006 12:25:41

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
Profile
Lets try this :)



|-- A --|-B-|

________    ________          ________   -------

|       |   |       |    *    |       |     |

|       |   |       |    *    |       |     |

|       |   |       |    *    |       |     |

|       |   |       |    *    |       |     |

|       |   |       |    *    |       |     |

|       |   |       |    *    |       |     |

|   P   | s |   P   | s  *  s |   P   |     |

|   A   | p |   A   | p  *  p |   A   |     |

|   D   | a |   D   | a  *  a |   D   |

|       | c |       | c  *  c |       |      

|   1   | e |   2   | e  *  e |  22   |     C

|       |   |       |    *    |       |      

|       |   |       |    *    |       |     |

|       |   |       |    *    |       |     |

|       |   |       |    *    |       |     |

|       |   |       |    *    |       |     |

|       |   |       |    *    |       |     |

|       |   |       |    *    |       |     |   

|   |   |   |   |   |    *    |       |     |

|       |   |       |    *    |       |     |

|   |   |   |   |   |    *    |       |     |   

|       |   |       |    *    |       |     |

|   |   |   |   |   |    *    |       |     |

--------    --------          --------    ------

|   |           |                     |

                                       

|   |           |                     |

                                       

|                                     |

    |--   D   --|

|                                     |


|---------------  E  -----------------|
01-16-2006 12:53:15

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
Profile
Select the above text and paste into a single line-spacing editor ... it will make more sense.
01-16-2006 14:21:02

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
Profile

22 PIN CARDEDGE

Here is another stab at it.

The image above shows the layout of the 22 pin cardedge of the Juiceware cartridge PCB.
(The MP3 kit PCB is slightly different ... another day)

I labled the measurements as follows;

A) Highth of card
B) Width of card
C) Hight of pad
D) From start of first pad to end of last pad
E) Pitch between pads
F) Space between pads
G) Width of pad
H) Space from edge of card to pads
I) Space from edge of card to pads

Here is what I have found the measurements to be.

(mm +/- .05)
A = 22.9
B = 28.2
C = 6.7
D = 26.7
E = 1.2
F = .3
G = .9
H = .7
I = .7

Any feedback would be helpful.
Thanks

sfranzyshen

01-18-2006 19:27:50

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
Profile
I also added this to the wiki, but we should have someone else double checkit. :)
01-18-2006 20:20:21

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
Profile
finnally I have no way of testing the thickness of the card ... anyone out
there with a digi caliper??
01-18-2006 20:36:32

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
Profile
I think the cartridge slot is a NON-ZIF FPC/FFC Connector.

Something like this;


http://www.kyocera-elco.com/prdct/pdf/6216.pdf

FPC/FFC = flexible printed circuit (FPC) or flexible flat cable (FFC)

Spec:

- 22 contact
- top contacts only
- 1.25mm pitch
- NON-ZIF
- FPC/FFC
- right angle
- SMT

I have not found an exact match but i am looking. From what I can tell, most of these
connectors can accept a PCB up to .3mm So my guess is our cartridge PCBs are .3mm
thick.

any feedback??

Thanks
sfranzyshen

01-21-2006 15:58:15

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
Profile
A standard thickness and type of PCB is .062".
Other typical board thickness provided by PCB
houses are .010", .020", and .031".

So we are looking at .010" or 10 Mil = 0.254mm
well within the specs for the FPC/FCC connector.

Thanks
sfranzyshen

01-21-2006 16:27:16

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 1 times) Tom61
Profile | Email
Neat. Are you making a XD and SD card adapter? If so, how many are you thinking of having made? I might be interested in one.

I've been trying to remember to bring a cart home with me, so I could use some of Dad's calipers to measure them, but I keep forgetting. BTW, I think the MP3 kit cart and a Juiceware video cart are slightly different thicknesses.

01-21-2006 19:48:48

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
Profile
I have found prototype copper clad boards 1/64" thick.


6" x 9" Double Sided Copper Clad Board Presensitized 1/64" (698)


6" x 9" Double Sided Copper Clad Board Presensitized 1/64" (598)

1/64" = 0.015625"
1/64" = 0.396875mm

0.096875mm = 0.003813976377952756"

I think I could shave that much off ... maybe even with sand paper.
After all I only have to do the cardedge, not the whole PCB.

has anyone every tried this product;
http://www.elexp.com/pro_npb5.htm


FROM: Tom61
Neat. Are you making a XD and SD card adapter? If so, how many are you thinking of
having made? I might be interested in one.

I am writing up a project idea for creating a JuiceBox cartridge breakout cable. I have the outline of the project below. The obvious next step is to create a devel board.

Project: Juiceware cartridge breakout adapter modification +PCB

I propose building a PCB that fits into a slightly modified
juiceware cartridge case, and will pass a ribbon cable out to
a standard header for connecting to prototype/bread boards.

Goals:

A) Use off the shelf standard material
B) No modification to the JuiceBox itself.

Materials/Supplies/tools:

- Any Juiceware cartridge (the blank "juicebox" cartridge that came with the unit should work)
- 80 wire IDE ribbon cable (not a regular 40 pin ide cable)
- Laser printer (capable of printing 600x600dpi)
- 1/64" Copper Clad Board
- sharp blade (exacto knife, box cutter)
- screw driver (small philips)
- ribbon cable connector (and tool?) (any ideas for the connector?)
- soldering tools (iron, solder)
- PCB etching materials

Making the PCB:

In keeping with our goals, we will produce the PCB ourselves.
To avoid software compatability issues, I am producing the artwork in a 600x600 dpi
bitmap image. That way any bitmap application should be able to print it out properly.

Modify the cartridge case:

(I'm working on artwork and text howto)

Cutting the case to allow for the ribbon cable to pass thru.


Putting it together:

(I'm working on artwork and text howto)

ribbon cable modification, and assembly.


FROM: Tom61
BTW, I think the MP3 kit cart and a Juiceware video cart are slightly different
thicknesses.

Yeah, I have also notices a few differences between the two cartridge types. I am working
on some graphics and writeup about the cartridges. Coming soon ...


I still need to verify mesurements

Thanks
sfranzyshen

01-21-2006 22:19:41

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) jbfan
Profile
finnally I have no way of testing the thickness of the card ... anyone out
there with a digi caliper??
I'm getting 0.028in (0.72mm) thickness at the gold fingers.
I have no calibration standards to compare to, but a sheet of 20lb printer paper measures 0.003in(0.09mm) with this instrument so it's probably not too far off.

I propose building a PCB that fits into a slightly modified
juiceware cartridge case, and will pass a ribbon cable out to
a standard header for connecting to prototype/bread boards.
The timing may be a little tight on this interface. I modified an "MP3 kit" by wiring a header for a logic analyzer to it. With the LA connected nothing worked, the display was just scrambled pixels. The problem appears to be related to the read line (nOE), with that one line removed from the analyzer the JuceBox worked fine.

Still, your plan sounds good. The signals can always be buffered at the breadboard if needed.

Making the PCB:

In keeping with our goals, we will produce the PCB ourselves.
To avoid software compatability issues, I am producing the artwork in a 600x600 dpi
bitmap image. That way any bitmap application should be able to print it out properly.

I'm embarrassed to say I have never etched my own PCB;-( Is it really possible to make a DIY PCB within these tolerances (.9mm pads with .3mm spacing)?

You may want to consider, as an alternative; remove the ROM from a juiceware cartridge and solder wires to the board (it's not too difficult assuming you have good eyes or, like me, access to a rework microscope;-P).

Glad to see more JB activity on the board, may have to dig my setup out of the closet and have a go at it again.

-J

01-23-2006 18:29:26

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
Profile
Today I added a page to the Wiki to expand on the JuiceWare cartridge.

http://www.elinux.org/wiki/JuiceWare

I'm getting 0.028in (0.72mm) thickness at the gold fingers.

Hmmm. That is much more then I thought. Good, we are not limited to 1/64" boards, but
this means that the connector is not a standard FPC/FFC connector.

The timing may be a little tight on this interface...

This is good to know. Is there anything I can do at the cart pcb like a line driver or buffer?or should this be handled at the devel board?

...Is it really possible to make a DIY PCB within these tolerances (.9mm pads with .3mm spacing)?

In theory we are limited to the method used to transfer the imprint of our design onto the copper clad surface. If we choose to use a light exposure method, then we are limited to the resolution of the printer. 0.0017" for a 600x600 dpi lazer printer. If we
choose a heat transfer method, then we are limited to the transfer sheet. PNP-Blue claims accuracy to 5 mil or 0.005". So for a .3mm spacing we are looking at 0.0118" accuracy, that both methods above could achive. In addition SMT level protoboard development in-house is fessiable using tinning liquids to coat the copper, and there are even in-house solutions for through-hole-plating, and solder mask.

through-hole-plating
solder-masks

I have never tried to develop an in-house SMT project. But, I plan too here. :)

Thanks
sfranzyshen

01-24-2006 15:16:17

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
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Me again :)

I have posted a new image of the JuiceWare PCB layout. Once again I'm asking for help to get precision
mesurements. This image is not a 100% reproduction of the original PCB. Yet, it is a simplified version
of the PCB in order to reduce the number of drills, and cuts need to produce the PCB. The new layout
fits into an un-modified JuiceWare case.


JuiceWare PCB Layout

Thanks
sfranzyshen

01-24-2006 19:10:40

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
Profile
I also would like to get confirmation for the cardedge mesurements.

Cardedge Layout

Thanks
sfranzyshen

01-24-2006 19:20:31

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
Profile
You may want to consider, as an alternative; remove the ROM from a juiceware cartridge and solder wires to the board (it's not too difficult assuming ...

I have done just that, with varying degrees of success. But, one of my goals is to "reproduce" the JuiceWare PCB. So that additional future development could lead to other cartridges to be created. Such as a MicroSD/NAND(TSOP) cartridge that would fit into a modified JuiceWare case. Or just a MicroSD cartridge to be an alternative to the MP3 KIT. Or just a NAND(TSOP) into a modified JuiceWare cartidge to create a JuiceWare FLASHable slimline cartridge. Or what ever else we can connect to the 22 i/o lines passed-thru this connector. USB interface Possible? Hmmmm ...

But, for now I want to create a development board so that I can experiment with it ... Any ideas?

- Obviously I want to include a MMC/SD interface & a XD interface maybe a TSOP ZIF Socket
- A breadboard pin board area mapped to various locations (with jumper options)
- I was looking around for either a Parallel port interface or a USB option
for programming the NAND but I have found little available ... mostly for the
reasons prpplague pointed out and why he choose to use the JuiceBox itself.
My hope was to find an alternate way of programming the NAND without needing
to wire for JTAG.
- Perhaps we should include a jtag design into the devel board and put a connector
into the JuiceBox to passout the jtag & serial lines to the devel board? Is there
a USB JTAG available? Maybe we can include a Serial2USB and a JTAG2USB
interface and connect the devel board to a host via USB to control both?

Just a couple of thoughts! Hope this gets a few people fired-up!

Thanks Again

sfranzyshen

01-24-2006 22:11:56

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 1 times) Tom61
Profile | Email
My hope was to find an alternate way of programming the NAND without needing
to wire for JTAG.

There's a few alternatives on the bottom of this page: http://www.elinux.org/wiki/JuiceBoxUMDCart

01-24-2006 22:41:50

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) Tom61
Profile | Email
The Alauda based Xd reader seems the most interesting on that, especially if it can still be bought for cheap. prpplague, could you post the modified driver for RAW access, and a brief howto?
01-24-2006 22:53:31

New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
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Skipping ahead a little ...

I have been looking at how we can program the juicebox NAND device. Most of what I am going to say here has already been said previously by prpplague.

Wiki:(prpplague)... there are several methods you could use to program the SM/xD card ...
  • use a JuiceBox
  • use a USB->SM/xD device that provides raw access
  • modify some existing hardware to do the job
  • build custom hardware
    • I was talking above about building a devel board and thought about how to create a way to program the NAND.If we use the JuiceBox to program the NAND, then we need to wire (modify) the unit, and then figure out how to connect it back to a host. Do we create a raw connector (something like a low profile DIN out of the bottom of the unit), or do we try and install into the unit a circut that would provide the JTAG & Serial interfaces via a miniUSB-B connector out the back of the unit. If we use the raw connector, then we will need to create the support circuitry on the devel board ... making it dependant on the devel board. If we have a NAND already programmed, then it would be trivial to update the NAND (from serial, MMC/SD, JTAG) once we already have control of the unit. If we build a seperate programmer (on the devel) or use an existing product (modified) we will either be dependant on what type of NAND to use (ie xD) and dependant on the devel board, or we will need to create a cartridge connector to accept our cartridges for programming. What way to go? Ideally, I would like to see a modified JuiceBox with a miniUSB-typeB connector comming out of the back providing JTAG & Serial connectivity, and a modified JuiceWare cartridge containing a microSD slot, and a 256MB TSOP NAND inside. If we create our own programmer, then we eliminate the need for JTAG, and can consentrate on a USB2Serial interface for the JuiceBox. Once we have a programmed NAND, we never need the programmer again, because we can reprogram it directly.

    I am leaning on creating a programmer that could accept a custom Juiceware cartrdige an write to it (or read) from both the NAND and MMC/SD interfaces via a USB host. Leaving any modification to the JuiceBox itself to support serial functions only.

    prpplague - Your modifications to the Alauda based driver is available around somewhere?
    If we modified one of the supported devices, we could use it to program all kinds of NANDs. This is possible, Yes?

    But, for now I will be concentrating on devel board with a MMC/SD & xD slots connected to the JuiceBox via the JuiceWare Breakout Adapter Mod using a custom cartridge PCB, and expermenting with bringing out the JuiceBox Serial Port.

    Think Big! Start Small :)

    Thanks
    sfranzyshen

    01-25-2006 16:52:35

    New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
    Profile
    Ok, maybe I went a little nuts with all the post, but they are ideas I have been thinking about, and wanted to get them out to our community. I have plans to wire (modify) a JuiceBox with a UART connector & a JTAG connector. I also plan to construct a JuiceWare Breakout cartridge (adapter) and connect it to a development board containing a MMC/SD socket, a xD socket, and a breadboard area (or maybe just a header). I am openly disccusing my plans here in hopes that it will inspire others to help out and contribute. Or, that it may help someone else looking to experiment with a low-cost ARM+Linux development environment.

    Thanks :)
    sfranzyshen

    01-26-2006 15:49:16

    New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) sfranzyshen
    Profile
    Ok, maybe I went a little nuts with all the post, but they are ideas I have been thinking about, and wanted to get them out to our community. I have plans to wire (modify) a JuiceBox with a UART connector & a JTAG connector. I also plan to construct a JuiceWare Breakout cartridge (adapter) and connect it to a development board containing a MMC/SD socket, a xD socket, and a breadboard area (or maybe just a header). I am openly disccusing my plans here in hopes that it will inspire others to help out and contribute. Or, that it may help someone else looking to experiment with a low-cost ARM+Linux development environment.

    Thanks :)
    sfranzyshen

    01-26-2006 15:57:14

    New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) jbfan
    Profile
    ...Is there anything I can do at the cart pcb like a line driver or buffer?or should this be handled at the devel board?...
    Good question. I'm not sure what the issue is. It may just be a weak driver; the nOE is rated at only 8ma. It could also be related to etch routing on the PCB; if the cart is in the middle of the etch, rather than the end, any wire (stub) added at the connector can cause reflections which would be bad.
    A buffer would potentially solve either issue. The only thing to keep in mind is how much delay the buffer adds to the signal. Delay can mess up your timing at the destination (devel board).
    Also the nWE may have the same problem it's only a 6ma driver.

    Finally decided to document (in photos anyway:) what I have come up with on the hardware front.

    Juicebox jtag and serial hacks;
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/75872235@N00/sets/72057594056005084/

    Juiceware hacks;
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/75872235@N00/sets/72057594056009141/

    There has been a lot of hardware activity as of late. So, where is our software support?-)
    Do I have to post my TCL/Jtager scripts? (Only takes about three days to write a 32M nand chip):

    -J

    01-30-2006 10:32:51

    New MessageRE:Cartridge slot physical specs (modified 0 times) thatoneguy
    Profile
    hey guys, not sure if you still need it, or not but i have acess to a digital caliper at work.
    if you can let me know what you need measured, I can do it.
    P.S. Glade to see some new action on this forum!
    Peace,
    thatoneguy
    02-04-2006 02:50:00

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