I-Appliance BBS
The Official Source for Internet Appliance Upgrades and Mods
Amazon Honor System Click Here to Pay Learn More
BBS Main List | Sign In | Sign Up | Search | Help | Linux-Hacker.netReply to Thread | Printer |

Home / MISC Areas / Mattel JuiceBox
Virtual SD/xD/MMC Card?
NAND Emulation?

New MessageVirtual SD/xD/MMC Card? (modified 0 times) spangemonkee
Profile
I've done some searching and I can't seem to find anything that will allow you to create virtual memory cards of the NAND type. I'm sure this would require some kind of hardware and it would be kind of like prpplague's JuiceBoxUMDCart but without the card.

I'm basically looking for a solution where I can plug a USB/serial/parallel cable to my PC and then specify a directory as the virtual memory card. The other end of the cable would be some kind of conector that would fit in to a memory slot. This way you could run different images at a time and it would be less tiresome. I don't really know much about hardware, but I would like to poke around with the code without investing in memory cards that I will more than likely melt with my awesome soldering skill.

09-03-2006 05:23:51

New MessageRE:Virtual SD/xD/MMC Card? (modified 0 times) prpplague
Profile
see this thread:

http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=MJB&Post=86&Idle=0&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=0&Session=


there is a discussion about NAND flash emulation

09-03-2006 06:00:37

New MessageRE:Virtual SD/xD/MMC Card? (modified 0 times) Tom61
Profile | Email
If you just want to poke around the code, building a JTAG cable might be easier than trying to emulate flash memory.
09-04-2006 10:13:48

New MessageRE:Virtual SD/xD/MMC Card? (modified 0 times) spangemonkee
Profile
would JTAG work for testing linux installs?
09-04-2006 14:29:21

New MessageRE:Virtual SD/xD/MMC Card? (modified 0 times) WestfW
Profile

>>I've looked at the NAND command protocol, there's no way for the memory chip to tell the host to slow down except when actually erasing or programming a block.
>Not true - the r/b (Ready/Busy) line does just this.

No, the original comment is correct, there is no byte level flow control. Timing diagrams in the data sheet show that R/B# only goes low when the chip is reading from the memory array to it's internal cache, or during programing or erase. Individual reads/writes on the bus have no effect on the R/B#, you _do_ need to know how fast you can access the device.


(I moved this thread here from the "cartridge PCB" topic, cause it's more appropriate here.)

Hmm. It doesn't matter what existing NAND chips DO with R/B#, it matters what the juicebox boot firmware looks for.
(which is proprietary and can't be posted, but presumably people have single-stepped it?) With
a lot of luck, it could check R/B# before every read/write... (But if you're seeing 250-500ns writes,
it seems unlikely that all such writes got funneled through a common status-checking "write nand" function. Sigh.)

Assuming it doesn't, how much full-speed buffering would a hypothetical NAND emulator require? A full
"block" worth plus a couple commands, with busy only checked when the chip is told to write/get a block?
That would make the emulator rather difficult...

09-06-2006 00:23:06

New MessageRE:Virtual SD/xD/MMC Card? (modified 0 times) prpplague
Profile

would JTAG work for testing linux installs?

of course, how do you think i got my uclinux up and running?

in addition once you've got the nand flash configured properly you read the kernel and root filesystem from the sd/mmc card, which makes testing even more easy.


Assuming it doesn't, how much full-speed buffering would a hypothetical NAND emulator require? A full
"block" worth plus a couple commands, with busy only checked when the chip is told to write/get a block?
That would make the emulator rather difficult...

i don't have the exact figured i got over a year ago, but based on the code and some values i got from an oscope, the only thing that would have been capable of emulating the NAND flash for the juicebox was a fast FPGA.

09-06-2006 04:42:45

New MessageRE:Virtual SD/xD/MMC Card? (modified 0 times) jbfan
Profile
JTAG is your best bet if you just want to load code on the JB.

If you really want to make an emulator;


Hmm. It doesn't matter what existing NAND chips DO with R/B#, it matters what the juicebox boot firmware looks for.
True, but it would be unlikely they would put an extra check at each cycle. Streaming video needs maximum efficiency.
They could set the R/B# as an interrupt but still unlikely.


Assuming it doesn't, how much full-speed buffering would a hypothetical NAND emulator require? A full "block" worth plus a couple commands, with busy only checked when the chip is told to write/get a block?
Two different NAND data sheets (Hynix and Micron) show busy being asserted at the end of each page read.
So that makes for 1 page of data that needs to be sent at 250ns per byte.
I have only used 32M, 64M, and 128M devices with the JB, these have all had 512+16 byte pages.
You also need to be prepared to send status or ID whenever requested. Status can assert busy, ID can't.

-J

09-06-2006 06:20:17

Reply to Thread | Printer |
All times are PSTPowered by UltraBoard v1.62



Copyright © 2000, Netmake Inc. All Rights Reserved.
See Terms and Conditions for more information.




i-opener opener laptop notebook computer help drivers dll free windows dos repair fix linux mac macintosh 2000 95 98 nt pc configure hardware software sound video netscape explorer network networking lan wan software cmos fat bios printer card mouse modem ide scsi cd rom controllers scanner tape hard drive cgi scripts source code mp3