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mini-sd adaptor

New Messagemini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) WestfW
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I've designed a PCB for a mini-SD adaptor for the juicebox (using the $0.33 mini-SD connectors being sold on eBay.)
It's all together; now all I need to do is wait for my juiceboxes to arrive.
I've got a few questions that I can't quite figure out from the photos on the wiki and other info here:

1) The leftmost resistor in the component sized photo (100k); that connects to finger 20 on the JB connector, right?
Is the other side connected to Vss or Vdd? (The UMD cartridge clearly says pull-up to Vdd, but I'm wondering if that's
how it tells xD from SD...)

2) Will the JB software recognize an SD card that contains unrecognizable files as long as at least one file is an
appropriate one? Or does it want all the files to be JB compatible...

http://homepage.mac.com/westfw/PhotoAlbum44.html

09-11-2006 00:18:26

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 1 times) jbfan
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Wow, that looks cool!
What model of the LPKF are you using?

1) The leftmost resistor in the component sized photo (100k); that connects to finger 20 on the JB connector, right?
R2 connects pin 20 to VSS on the mp3 (SD) cart.

2) Will the JB software recognize an SD card that contains unrecognizable files as long as at least one file is anappropriate one?
Yes, just one of the files needs to be recognized on the FAT16 formated SD card. Also the JB does not look in subdirectories so all the files you want to see need to be in the root (/) directory.

-J

09-11-2006 05:08:46

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) WestfW
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R2 connects pin 20 to VSS on the mp3 (SD) cart.

Rats (I pulled it up to Vdd.)

What model of the LPKF are you using?

It's a 92s I got from eBay a couple years back. In retrospect, I'm not
sure it was a good idea. Tool cost is higher than expected, it's not
very practical to do more than single-sided boards (no plated holes),
and the .2mm minimum route path is a bit too large for many of the modern
SMT packages (and there's no soldermask, either.)

OTOH, it excels for boards like this that are too small to have sent out
to fab; I can fix the Vss vs Vdd thing today and I only have one bad board,
while I would have been faced with (minimally) $40 worth of bad boards and
multiple days to get them fixed.

09-11-2006 08:34:08

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) bkgoodman
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I bought one several years back for about $12k.

I used it on a bunch of protos - but with the price of a two-layer board, especially these days - it was *not* a wise investment.

You *can* plate the holes - there is a kit to do it - but it is a time consuming task.

When you factor in time required to make them too - it really doesn't make sense.

When the company went out of business, and were selling off everthing - I bought a lot of old lab equipment. I could have taken that machine too - but I left it.

09-11-2006 11:15:36

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) WestfW
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When you factor in time required to make them too - it really doesn't make sense.

I find it most sense-full on small SS boards, where the mechanical etching time isn't too bad,
and commercial PCBs get very expensive (does anyone other than sparkfun offer a PCB service charged
per square inch down to ONE square inch? It's almost worth the (reduced) eBay price simply as a
drilling machine (but I need a way to match up chemically etched boards with the drill...)
09-11-2006 14:41:43

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) jbfan
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...I can fix the Vss vs Vdd thing today and I only have one bad board,...
The JB software is very forgiving, the "bad" one will probably work.

-J

09-11-2006 15:14:11

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) WestfW
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The JB software is very forgiving, the "bad" one will probably work.

Yee-hah! My juiceboxes arrived today, and my adaptor did in fact work on the first
attempt, (as you say) despite the pull-up vs pull-down error. Makes me wonder which
of those resistors are really necessary in the first place. Some may come into play
when the SD adaptor is present without a card - is the original adaptor supposed to
support hot-swap of the SD cards? (I'm trying to make this easy to make in a home
setup (without an LPKF ; Fewer used edge pins would be better, I think.)

I can't say I care for the appearance of the box with the adaptor inserted; it sticks
WAY out there. It's also annoying that the insertion of the card into the JB tends
to cause the miniSD card to eject...

I have an idea that would have the card (plus serial and jtag connections)
sticking out the top of the box instead of the sides, using a sort of daughter-card that
mounts on the back of the main board, using the screws already present. I'll have to
see whether that will work out...

09-13-2006 22:02:05

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) WestfW
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I've uploaded the cad files for the miniSD adaptor to the wiki:
http://www.elinux.org/wiki/JuiceBoxMMCHack
09-15-2006 00:29:06

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) bkgoodman
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Can you post your libraries, too?
09-15-2006 11:22:52

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) WestfW
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I can put something together, I guess. The cartridge library is already there on
http://www.elinux.org/wiki/JuiceBoxSlot the my-rcl.lbr is just a reduced-confusion
copy of the standard rcl lib. Note that in theory the library info can be extracted
from the sch/brd with exp-project-lbr.ulp provided... I've also provided the minisd
socket library to the eBay vendor, so it's just a matter of putting together the
various pieces (my complete personal library would be a bit embarassing...)
09-15-2006 15:51:49

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) WestfW
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I put together some more mini-SD adaptors tonight. The first was shrunk slightly (and had the bugs corrected), and I used it to test whether I'd get proper operation without any caps, pullup or pulldown resistors. It still worked fine, so the second one was a "minimalist" version where the entire board is not much bigger than an SD card, and it's square so mere mortals can cut it out of PCB material. I've also laid out some "helper" cards that are aimed at using the adaptors as sockets. I'll try to zip them and get them uploaded to the wiki soon.

Pictures: http://homepage.mac.com/westfw/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2006-09-10%2023.49.58%20-0700/MMC-comparison.jpg

11-04-2006 03:19:07

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) WestfW
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New pictures and cad files on the wiki. I also did some "helper" cards for MMC and SD, which are nothing more than edge connectors that move the appropriate pins to locations convenient to jumpering to an actual card, which might be useful if you were interested in building a plugin card based on RSMMC or microSD "adaptors" as sockets.
11-05-2006 14:57:22

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) dizzie
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Can someone make me a Juicebox card adapter that would work with most cards? Doesn't have to be beautiful. How much would it cost, with shipping to Virginia, USA? (could probably just mail it in an envelope with cardboard around the adapter)

Thanks!!!


Dizzie
11-10-2006 09:26:15

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) WestfW
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What do you mean by "most cards" ? Most different formats, or most vendors of a particular format?
An adaptor with a full-sized MMC or SD socket will (probably) accept MMC and SD directly, and RSMMC, miniSD, and microSD with the adaptors they usually come with.
11-10-2006 14:01:39

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) dizzie
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Good question. I just want an adapter that I can plug an SD card into without having to buy the Juicebox adapter kit - thought it would be cheaper to have someone make me one of the adapters as described on this page, perhaps.
Dizzie
11-16-2006 07:28:35

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) WestfW
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I think that except for my mini-SD adaptor PCB, all the adaptors I've seen
mentioned are either the "solder wires to the board" types of hacks, or
start with an existing rom/video cartridge (which are now as difficult to
obtain as the Mattel version of the SD adaptor, as far as I know.) That's
not a good state of affairs WRT buying one at reasonable cost; a homemade
PCB just isn't going to sell for less than the commercial MP3 kits are
still selling for on eBay (looks like $10 to $20 including shipping), unless
the builder decides to be charitable. Are you deserving of charity?
11-17-2006 00:37:34

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) dizzie
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Probably not, but thanks for the thought!!
11-27-2006 09:49:46

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) Ashman
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Been looking at your .brd files, WestfW.

Seems to me that it would be nice to have one that would fit inside of the dummy cards that come with the JuiceBoxes. That way you could simply dremmel off the back side to leave an opening for the MiniSD card, and have an actual JuiceBox card to plug into the slot rather than just an open PC board.

Do you think any of your current designs would fit inside the dummy cards without modification or some sort of hot glue/epoxy MacGyvering?

01-05-2007 23:56:45

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) WestfW
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While it's not one of the pictures I posted, The zip file contains a design
Juice-box-miniSD-3.* where I tried to put holes in the appropriate place.
It hasn't been tested. It's a bit tough because the holes happen very soon
after the edge connector, effectively narrowing the board down very quickly,
and there are signals near both edges that are needed...
01-07-2007 02:35:39

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) ToeZ
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does anyone plan on making a run of these boards?
01-16-2007 19:31:56

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) WestfW
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The current designs are really meant for home fabrication. I'd do things
differently (maybe) if they were destined for a professional fab. But the
fab would be problematic. Most board houses don't do "odd" thicknesses on
small runs (though 0.8mm thick, which is close to the .72 nominal of the
cartridges, is merely "uncommon" rather than "odd.")

For the simplest board (single sided, about 35x35mm, no soldermask, no
silkscreen, no gold) http://www.futurlec.com quotes about $0.90 each plus
$15 setup ($12 additional for silkscreen or soldermask setup. $24 for both.)
They say they do 0.8mm "on request."
That's not bad, I guess. Futurlec has a reputation for being slow and not
very communicative, but otherwise pretty good.

My pcb designs are free for anyone to use, modify, fabricate, sell, whatever.
I don't think "we" have ever nailed down how annoyed matel/etc is likely to
be if someone starts selling (near) clone hardware.

01-17-2007 01:07:09

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 1 times) WestfW
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(oops; Duplicate posting)
01-17-2007 01:08:16

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) ToeZ
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do you think the design needs to be reworked? i am willing to get a run of these done up, several people here im sure would appreciate it.
01-19-2007 18:52:28

New MessageRE:mini-sd adaptor (modified 0 times) DavidM348
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Looks like cost is not bad. I have a dozen JB's that need SD adapters, so I'm in for a dozen :)

-David

01-21-2007 18:53:55

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