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Home / Web Pads / Panasonic CF-01 Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source!

Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) bus_depot Profile I believe I've already found a source for cheap, high-capacity battery cells for the CF-01! Batteryworldcenter.com has a TY-UR18650 lithium ion batteries for $8.68 each. This part number (and picture) seemed very similar to the ones for the cells inside the CF-01 battery pack (apparantly a Panasonic GR18650 or a Sony US18650S according to this website. So I called the Batteryworldcenter.com and asked. He said that he is reasonably sure that the batteries are indeed the same. However, he said that while the older version of this battery (as used in the CF-01) was 1200 aH, these newer ones deliver 1800 aH! This would mean a 50% increase in battery life between charges using these versus the cells included with the CF-01. Note, these are cells only, not battery packs. You need 3 cells per battery pack. The second link above appears to include instructions (in Japanese) on how to make a battery pack from these cells. Also, the guy at Batteryworldcenter.com told me that he is a battery pack manufacturer and could custom make the battery packs we need, using these cells, if provided with the specs etc. We did not discuss rates. It may or may not be cost effective versus "rolling your own," depending on what he would charge versus the work involved in doing it yourself. He said he has only a few of these batteries in stock at the moment, but that they are a regular stock item for him and he is expecting 200 more very soon. Note that I am basing this info strictly on his word and the websites above, and have neither opened up my CF-01 battery pack nor looked at one of batteryworldcenter.com's batteries. But all signs are positive. I don't have time to work on this issue. Getting everyone their CF-01's is going to take up just about all the time I can spare - at some point I need to get back to work. If someone would like to handle the battery angle sometime in the near future, the guy I spoke to was Leon, and his email address is leon@batteryworldcenter.com . It might be better for one person to handle this rather than us bombarding the poor guy with a few dozen virtually identical inquiries. 04-12-2001 10:41:11

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) NITF Profile If no one else is tackling this issue I will. I am also planning on modifying the battery case so that I can use several pre-fab battery packs and just swap them out to extend the run time without having to purchase new plastic. NITF 04-13-2001 10:00:26

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) bus_depot Profile That's a great idea! If the plastic case were modified so that you could simply pop it open and swap out the 3 batteries inside, as if they were plain old AA batteries or whatever, all we'd need is the one case and a supply of the $8 cells. One consideration though: I recall reading in the manual that the unit should be plugged into AC power while the battery is being changed. If this is true, it would effectively still limit you to a few hours away from an AC or DC outlet, even with spare batteries, since you'd have to be near one to plug in long enough to swap out the batteries. One option might be an adapter that plugs a set of 3 of the batteries (or an alternate, small, low-aH power source) into the unit's DC-in jack, thus providing temporary power through that input while the batteries were being changed. Perhaps the same adapter could be reversed to perform a second purpose as well: to allow you to connect one set of batteries directly to AC adapter for charging, while the CF-01 was being used elsewhere using another set of batteries. 04-13-2001 10:42:41

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) NITF Profile That was something else I was discussing with a fellow CF-01 orderer. I was thinking about making a larger external battery pack that would provide a regulated 12V (or whatever the external jack needs) for extended trips like plane rides. I will have to think about this a little more, might be able to slave off the new battery pack long enough to remove the old pack and switch them out. But I think worst case is that you go into a complete power off mode change the batteries and you might have to reset the time and date after a reboot if no CMOS back-up battery is available or fabable. NITF 04-13-2001 13:34:37

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) bus_depot Profile Well there is a second internal battery, but it's listed in the spec sheet simply as a "clock battery" and it's only 3.0v. Regarding power source, the AC adapter's output to the CF-01's DC-in jack is 15.1 volts, but the battery pack delivers only 10.8v. I would take this to mean that the unit can function properly on a 10.8 v input, despite the higher output of the AC adapter. (Perhaps the difference is neccessary for proper recharging of the battery? I have noticed that cordless phones, etc. also tend to have a slightly higher input voltage than their rechargeable battery is rated at. But I'd have thought that the simultaneous recharging of a battery would require additional amperage, not voltage. Any EE's out there?) If the unit can indeed run on anywhere between 10.4 and 15.1 volts off of the DC input jack, that this also means that a straight 12v output from a car cigarette lighter would safely power the unit, as 12v alternator output tends to range between 12.0 and 14.4v; no need to use a voltage-drop device such as was required with the epods. 04-13-2001 19:36:40

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile I work in the auto industry doing chassis control systems. I have a great deal of experience running all sorts of computer equipment in cars. I would not recommend that anyone use the raw car voltage to power an electronic device. The 12v power in a car is too "dirty" to be good for the circuitry. During crank the voltage can drop into the 6 to 9 volt range (with a good battery). There are many other sources of nastiness that corrupt the 12v supply to much higher than 14.4 volts. I am even leery of inexpensive power converters. I've seen a power surge blow internal diodes apart (rare case). FYI, when diodes break, the smoke comes out and they won't work anymore . There are safe ways to power electronic devices in cars. A good DC-AC inverter is not a bad idea. The better quality ones are well designed for the for the crappy 12v power source. I will be able to comment more about running a CF-01 in a car after I get mine. I may also have a source for a spare AC adapter. I will post more on this if there is interest and I've tested that it will work. Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 04-13-2001 20:19:44

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) bus_depot Profile I have to admit being a bit hasty there. My background is in consumer electronics (mostly high-end audio), and where it came to autmotive applications, they considered any unit that could work from 14.4v down to just under 11 to be acceptable. But this was not sensitive computer gear. Glitch, I see your point regarding the risk of voltage spikes while the vehicle was running. But if I limit use to when the vehicle is not running (and no other high-draw accessories are running), then I believe that a fuse-protected 12v direct connection would be quite safe, as voltage output from the battery would be unlikely to vary dramatically (other than a gradual decrease as the battery discharged). Correct? 04-13-2001 22:00:53

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile busdepot: You are correct in that you could run a 12v device off the car's 12v system relatively safely with the car not running. You do have to be very careful of any unexpected events. Some things that come to mind are the power door locks, electric engine cooling fans (these often run for a while after the key is off) and power windows. Pretty much anything with a motor or solenoid can cause problems. Relays are another source of noise (though not as significant). You have to be just as concerned when a motor is switched off as when it is switched on. When it is switched on you have in in-rush current which drops the system voltage. When it is switched off you have back EMF which can drive large voltage spikes. Most of these noise sources are related to newer vehicles. If you were doing this in an older vehicle, like a 69 VW camper bus <g>, you would probably be OK as long as you don't have any extras like a 12v refrigerator. You should also be very careful about hooking up and running battery chargers when the device is plugged-in. Personally, I would use something to isolate the device. It is cheap insurance in case you forget and so something silly like accidently starting the car with the CF-01 plugged-in. Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 04-14-2001 08:12:14

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) JunkLeo Profile http://www.mobile-easy.com/english/product_ed/reference.htm Now is to find where can buy it. Leo 04-15-2001 14:31:34

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) NITF Profile JunkLeo: That is along the lines of what I was thinking about. It is fairly easy to assemble some rechargable cells together and get a nice battery pack out of it and just plug into the DC jack. I would most likely use enough cells to go to a hgiher nominal voltage then use a nice efficient LDO Regulator to take up the slack as the cells died down. Most likely use NiMH, I could use lithium cells which have a flatter discharge curve and a better power/weight ratio but it would get pricey, and the charging circuit is more complicated on Li-ion. Will keep all informed... NITF 04-16-2001 14:24:33

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) pete Profile Think its best maybe to set up some sort of deal with the Battery company to custom make some battery packs. Most likely most of us which have purchased the CF-01 would like a second or third one so I don't think he will have any problems selling these. The CF-01's are going pretty fast. Did I hear an original number of 500 or so? It would mean some business for the battery company. 04-17-2001 12:53:07

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) Cheaha Profile I would support a custom made battery pack.....any one else? Cheaha (DR) 04-18-2001 17:37:16

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) LiquidCyanide Profile If the company wont make the packs ill put in the investment and buy 30 or so and sell them back to you. Only if demand is high enough, email me if your interested. Youll be helping a fellow i-pliance hacker with cash for future purchase of i-pliances :) Brian LiqCyanide@home.com 04-18-2001 21:52:16

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) paqman Profile I'd be interested with a few too, depending on price and functionality (ie: possibility of hot swapping, charging outside the unit, etc). -paqman 04-18-2001 22:26:36

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) ouzome Profile me three 04-19-2001 08:27:18

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) jamesd1343 Profile Im in if the Price is Right 04-19-2001 10:03:00

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) SiliconIce Profile I'd be in for an extra pack or two depending on price. 04-19-2001 12:56:36

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) LiquidCyanide Profile Anyone contacted the battery supplier? I hope I'm not flamin the thread but this will be my lat post abotu the batteries. If they don't agree my offer stiull stands, i'll probably charge about $5-6 more than waht it costs me to make each pack, so its 8.70 x 3 = 26.10 plus $5.00-$10.00 or more S&H both ways = ~33.50 (yikes!) plus 5 bucks for labor =38-40 dollars. WOW now that I add it seems expensive, well buying in bulk and having it shipped in bulk may shave off liek $5. Well see ya guys. Brian LiqCyanide@home.com 04-19-2001 16:51:08

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) laserfan Profile Has anyone made any progress on this front? As I re-read this thread, and looked also at the japanese site that showed the battery disassembled, it is clear the battery has circuitry inside therefore I doubt that Extras can be easily built, though I suppose our packs could be cut apart and the cells replaced. I've searched for a source for the original Pana packs and they don't seem to be easily acquired either--has anyone found a source for a spare battery pack? There was a post up-front about finding them for $144. Where was that? 05-11-2001 21:11:14

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) Groch Profile | Email I found a distributor who had 2 original factory sealed CF-VZS011W batteries left and I snagged them both. I am keeping one but if anyone wants the other, despite the not great price, they can have it for $140 plus $5 shipping. I apologize for breaking the no sales rule on this one but as I know of no where else to get them I figured this was more polite to the group than putting it on Ebay. I have only one and cannot get more, Email me if you want it. 05-21-2001 05:42:16

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) CoolMaui Profile Has anybody looked into this cheaper/longer battery source any closer lately? CoolMaui 06-06-2001 19:31:26

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) SiliconIce Profile LiquidCyanide, you still up for making packs? Anyone talk to the batteryworld guy about making them recently? Now that I'm wireless I could really use another. 06-06-2001 20:43:13

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) bus_depot Profile LiquidCyanide apparantly sold his CF-01, which is probably why he's been silent here, but last I heard was still willing to do the battery pack thing. He needed some good photos of an opened battery pack so he could see what the circuitry was to see if he could do it. (Having sold his, he doesn't have one to look at.) Or has anyone else taken a good look at what that circuit board does? It would seem there are two possible ways to do it: build/have built complete replacement battery packs, or modify the existing battery pack's plastic housing/circuit board such that it is possible to simply pop three new cells into it when the first three go dead. Otherwise, batteryworld might do it. Or perhaps someone else on the bbs? Come on guys, doesn't anyone want to step forward and follow up on this? I found an apparant source for cheap cells, but I just don't have the time to take on the project myself (having already wasted too much time on CF-01's as it is :~). Someone??? Anyone???? 06-06-2001 21:22:30

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) CoolMaui Profile Bus_Depot, How did the splitting-up-the-cf01 experiment turn out. Are you still getting too many requests for the units and batteries over the docks? If not, I would be intersted in a unit and battery also. CoolMaui 06-06-2001 21:57:12

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) SiliconIce Profile Actually, that would be great if we could modify the pack to allow swapping of cells, they are relatively cheap. 06-06-2001 22:04:05

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) NITF Profile I signed up to work on the battery issue early on but have been busy as well and haven't had time to work on it. I have also been using my CF more and really want to get this issue looked into so I will be making time for it. I looked at the pictures and that little bit of circuitry is nothing complicated, most likely some poly-fuse to avoid overheating. I will keep everyone updated on my progress. NITF 06-07-2001 10:17:57

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) stretch Profile | Email Don't know if this helps but I just found out that the Norand 6622 & 6632 uses the same battery cells inside their packs but they are rated at 10.8v at 1350mAh. They use Sony cells inside, the packs may be easier to find. 07-08-2001 20:55:19

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile stretch: The Norand battery packs have a different contact arrangement than the CF-01. Because of this the packs are of no use to CF-01 users except for the Li-Ion cells. These cells can be purchased new from Batteryworldcenter.com. The Norand battery packs that are being discussed in the other forum are used and quite possibly unable to accept a charge. This was my motivation to find out which cells are used in the the Norand packs. On another subject.... Has anyone purchased cells from Batteryworldcenter.com to upgrade their CF-01 battery packs? Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 07-09-2001 07:22:16

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) stretch Profile | Email Glitch : Yea I know but, if Norand's are easier to find then all you have to do is open them up and take the cells out and use the housing for the CF-01. This whole battery thing is getting to be a pain!! I'm about to the point where I'm going to just get me one of those 12 volt battery belts or fanny pack and be done with it. LOL!! 07-09-2001 08:48:27

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile stretch: You probably already know this, but for the sake of those who don't... The cells in these packs do not pop in and out like AA cells. They are soldered and/or spot welded in. It may take a bit of imagination to incorporate the cells into your existing pack. I still think that the bet bet for the CF-01 (and the Norand) users is to purchase new cells. Click here to see the replacement cell. Each cell is $8.68. Buying cells like this will get you longer capacity cells which will actually work. You stand a very good chance of getting dead or limited life cells when buying used packs. It looks like new Norand packs are available from Intermec, but the price is fairly expensive ($110). I would rater pay $26 and not have to hassle with removing cells from another battery pack. Of course, if you have a source for cheap Norand battery packs I would be very interested . Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 07-09-2001 09:49:15

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) laserfan Profile I've had my CF-01 sitting in its stand (plugged-in) for a couple months, and tonight took it out to play with it and was disappointed to find it dead. As a doornail. Right now it's plugged directly into the AC adapter and hopefully the Li-Ion battery can be revived, but who knows? Has anyone made any progress on the battery front? 10-01-2001 19:05:41

RE:Found Longer-Capacity, Cheap Battery Source! (modified 0 times) laserfan Profile Well, I guess I jumped the gun, at least insofar as putting this issue into the "battery" thread. My dead Li-Ion battery came to life after plugging the CF-01 directly into the AC adapter. That's the good news. But either my docking station charge-ability is gone, or it trickles so as to be useless over long periods. Couldn't find anything in the user guide about charging current "direct-vs-dock" but maybe there's something in the Service Manual on this subject that would be useful. Am I the only one to have had/noticed this problem? 10-02-2001 10:52:23

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