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CC "Consumer Affairs" e-mail
CC "Consumer Affairs" e-mail

New MessageCC "Consumer Affairs" e-mail (modified 0 times) acadiel
E-mailed Circuit City and complained about the Netpliance letter and got this back in return. What I want to know is how they plan to find out if 1) The customer actually buys the unit, and 2) How they are going to bill the customer if they supposedly don't have a credit card number. :)

-- acad
-----------

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

Thanks for sending in your concern online. We have been receiving some calls and
messages regarding a letter that Netpliance sent to some of our customers who
have the i-opener on backorder. Most of the concerns revolve around customer
credit card information. Before I go further, let me clarify that we are not
giving Netpliance any credit card information of our customers.

A few weeks ago we provided Netpliance with the names and addresses of customers
who had the i-opener on backorder. This was done solely for the purpose of
advising the customer that modifications had been made to future stock of the
unit to prevent it from being used for a purpose other than what it was intended
for, and to ensure that the customer had the opportunity to cancel his/her order
if the customer no longer wished to purchase an i-opener unit. The letter sent
by Netpliance also contained a summary of the Terms of Sale established by
Netpliance and included with each unit. Please be aware that these terms are
between Netpliance and the customer only, and we will not be administering the
terms nor will we give Netpliance a customer's credit card information. Any
customer questions regarding the Terms of Sale should be directed to Netpliance.
Please see below for a copy of what the body of the letter contains.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Letter from Netpliance:
Dear Circuit City Customer,

We are writing on behalf of Circuit City regarding the i-opener that you
recently ordered. The product you ordered has been discontinued, but there is a
new model at the same price and includes all the benefits of the i-opener. The
difference is that modification of the i-opener in any way is no longer
physically possible in the new model.

In connection with your purchase of the new i-opener model you will need to
activate an i-opener service account to be able to use the i-opener and agree to
the Terms of Sale below. The fee for the service is $21.95 per month and will
be billed approximately 2 days after you purchase the product.

If you wish to cancel your order, or for a refund if you pre-paid, please
contact the Circuit City location where you ordered your i-opener.

Sincerely,


The Netpliance Team

Terms of Sale

By opening the i-opener box from Netpliance, I understand and agree that
purchasing the i-opener is contingent upon use with the activation of a new
i-opener account. I further understand and agree that if I fail to activate the
i-opener account within 30 days of purchase or cancel before 90 days after
purchase date, Netpliance is authorized to charge my credit card a $499 fee
representing the full value of each i-opener system purchased. I understand
that the fee does not apply if the i-opener system is returned to the place of
purchase in new condition with all components and the seal on the physical
hardware is not broken, within 30 days of purchase. I have read the above
conditions and understand my obligations under this agreement. I agree and
consent to the delivery and transfer of my name, phone number, and address to
Netpliance to activate my new i-opener account.

Thanks for visiting CircuitCity.com.

Sincerely,

Paul Carmichael
CircuitCity.com
Consumer Affairs Internet Specialist
http://www.circuitcity.com

04-21-2000 17:37:50

New MessageRE:CC (modified 0 times) jamie
Profile
That 'Terms of Sale' part is an cop-out. There was _no sale_ between Netpliance and the Circuit City customers. The sales were between Circuit City and the customers and the terms were very clear. Customer provides money, Circuit City provides product.

Also, there was absolutely no reason for Circuit City to give our information to Netpliance. Circuit City could have written the letter themselves or just slapped labels on a batch of pre-sealed/stamped envelopes provided by Netpliance.

And I am _STILL_ waiting for Circuit City to call me back with answers to my questions.

Jamie

04-21-2000 21:00:40

New MessageRE:CC (modified 0 times) digits65
I really don't see what the problem is with Netpliance's letter. They say that to use the I-Opener, you will need to sign up for the service and agree to their TOS. They never say that to receive the I-Opener, hack it, tear it into pieces, blow it up with explosives, or catapult it over the neighbors house you have to do these things.

From my reading of the letter, agreeing to the TOS only comes at the point of signing up with their service.

If the news of the non-IDE new model is true, Netpliance is perfectly correct in their letter with everything they state. Your (and my) option is a refund, or... whatever you want to do with the box. Sign it up or not. Your option.

04-21-2000 21:20:30

New MessageRE:CC (modified 0 times) jamie
Profile
Read the letter for cryin' out loud.

"By opening the i-opener box from Netpliance..."

The don't say anything about what you have to do to use it. They're talking about what you're required to do once you've purchased it. It goes on to say that people who don't activate their accounts within 30 days and keep them active for 90 days will be charged $499. You don't think that there's anything wrong with sending a letter like that to people who purchased their machines over a month before the notice was mailed? You don't think it's wrong for Netpliance to try to alter the terms of a sale in which they weren't even a party?

Jamie

04-21-2000 22:24:57

New MessageRE:CC (modified 0 times) dampier
I agree with Jamie. The nasties are all in the fine print at the bottom of the letter. The company doesn't state that the terms apply when you open your account, it says they apply when you open the box itself. Nonsense.

Additionally, it is clear CC is bailing out of the "enforcer" position for the terms and conditions, if they ever were in that position. But they may still be willing to hand over the completed purchase information Netpliance could somehow attempt to use to prove you got the unit and are supposedly now bound by the terms, assuming they could 1) prove you actually opened the box and 2) they could figure out a way to get your credit card #. Presumably the enforcement provisions will really only affect those who sign up for the service and then take their I-Opener apart.

The letter still leaves me cold and I would follow up with this guy pointing out that Netpliance's threats, on behalf of CC (who sanctioned the letter), makes CC a lousy store to do business with, because they fork over private information to allow their product manufacturers to threaten and cajole their customers with $500 fees. I'd be asking if CC's customer relations department is being run by the Gotti crime family. There seems to be little difference between threatening $500 in fees for violating a contract you never saw when you bought the product, and having Lou "The Enforcer" Sardini come to collect your past due gambling debts.

04-22-2000 09:28:40

New MessageRE:CC (modified 0 times) jamie
Profile
As I've said before, Netpliance doesn't need your credit card number to make life miserable. All they have to do is open an account in your name and send it to collections when you don't pay. Yes, it would be illegal but so is their attempt to alter the terms of sale so I wouldn't put it past them.

Jamie

04-22-2000 17:48:34

New MessageRE:CC (modified 0 times) LordJohnWhorfin
I think they put people in jail for doing stuff like that. I doubt the NPLI people are *that* dumb. Then again...
04-22-2000 22:19:57

New MessageRE:CC (modified 0 times) gator
Profile
Jamie- In order for NP to "just open an account and start billing you", their claim would not stand up in court without your signature. Since NP does not have, nor never will have your signature on a document to open an ISP account, they will not be able to pull that stunt. I suspect they are simply trying to scare people into signing up.

-Gator

04-24-2000 16:21:07

New MessageRE:CC (modified 0 times) jamie
Profile
Gator, as you can see, they're already causing trouble with their illegal activity. That letter they sent could be used in a textbook as an example of bait and switch. "The product you ordered has been discontinued...In connection with your purchase of the new i-opener model, you will need to..."

In other words, they have no intention of providing the product according to the terms they advertised. If you want to buy it, you'll have to agree to the new terms. Advertise no minimum commmitment, no strings = BAIT. Withold advertised product and substitute one with minimum commitment, $499 penalty = SWITCH.

If they're stupid enough to do something like that, I'd say they're stupid enough to try to actually open the account without authorization. Illegal or not, it takes a Hell of a lot of work to clear up something like that.

Heck, I've already spent well over an hour on the phone with various Circuit City reps just trying to find out what information was released. It took nearly a week to get absolute confirmation that my credit card information was not provided. I've got better things to do with my time. And I haven't even started with Netpliance yet. I'm still finishing up the privacy issue with Circuit City. One more compaint form (State of VA Office of Consumer Affairs) to fill out then I start working on the other end.

Jamie

04-24-2000 18:31:44

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