I-Appliance BBS The Official Source for Internet Appliance Upgrades and Mods BBS Main List | Sign In | Sign Up | Search | Help | Linux-Hacker.net Reply to Thread | Printer |

Home / I-Appliance BBS General / NEWS, Breaking NEWS All-in-one computer deal. Check it out

All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) ckbone Profile Anyone know anything about this setup? Looks like a neat starter system. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?sku=u450-1000 03-11-2001 16:01:32

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Steve Profile | Email 17 inch but only 1024x768 reesolution. compgeeks has a bunch of old NLX motherboards cheap but some don't come with riser cards. 03-12-2001 07:12:49

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) MISMan Profile | Email Well, CompGeeks does not have the daughterboards, but I have found some. Question of the day is, how the hell do you figure out if it works with any of the boards? Anyone know? Peter 03-12-2001 19:45:49

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile Dang, here I go again. It just looked soooo cute, I had to have one. The price wasn't bad, but the $35 shipping - ouch! I looked around for LPX mobos and found quite a few, mostly older stuff that takes slooow processors. But the BookPC uses a LPX form factor board and can take processors up to 533MHz. Plus it has everything on the board that you probably need. SoyoTek made this system, read all about it at http://www.soyotek.com/sy7000.html But like MISMan said, how do you know which will work (fit)? Though LPX is supposed to be a form factor, I'm sure there's a mess of variations. I'll wait for the monitor to arrive and research further then.... B'Dog P.S. - MISMan, drop me a line on your finds, we can exchange notes and hopefully come out better on this. 03-12-2001 20:04:55

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile Dang, here I go again. It just looked soooo cute, I had to have one. The price wasn't bad, but the $35 shipping - ouch! I looked around for LPX mobos and found quite a few, mostly older stuff that takes slooow processors. But the BookPC uses a LPX form factor board and can take processors up to 533MHz. Plus it has everything on the board that you probably need. SoyoTek made this system, read all about it at http://www.soyotek.com/sy7000.html But like MISMan said, how do you know which will work (fit)? Though LPX is supposed to be a form factor, I'm sure there's a mess of variations. I'll wait for the monitor to arrive and research further then.... B'Dog P.S. - MISMan, drop me a line on your finds, we can exchange notes and hopefully come out better on this. 03-12-2001 20:04:56

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile Dang, here I go again. It just looked soooo cute, I had to have one. The price wasn't bad, but the $35 shipping - ouch! I looked around for LPX mobos and found quite a few, mostly older stuff that takes slooow processors. But the BookPC uses a LPX form factor board and can take processors up to 533MHz. Plus it has everything on the board that you probably need. SoyoTek made this system, read all about it at http://www.soyotek.com/sy7000.html But like MISMan said, how do you know which will work (fit)? Though LPX is supposed to be a form factor, I'm sure there's a mess of variations. I'll wait for the monitor to arrive and research further then.... B'Dog P.S. - MISMan, drop me a line on your finds, we can exchange notes and hopefully come out better on this. 03-12-2001 20:05:02

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile Ooops, sorry for the multiple posts. Kept getting 'Page Cannot Be Displayed' errors and resubmitted until finally accepted. B'Dog 03-12-2001 20:08:12

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) 02U2 Profile I had 2 of those Soyo Li-7000's. There were 2 Versions, V 1.0 and V 1.1. V1.1 came with a short UDMA66 Cable. I had a CTX 17" monitor sitting on top of one of mine. It looked real funny because the Soyo was sooo small... I finally got tired of it and dumped it for $475. Originally paid $150 for the barebones, $50 for the 17" CTX. Free legal copy of Win98, The rest was leftover parts.... I read somewhere ver 1.1 actually can support 600Mhz celery.... http://www.soyo.com.tw/product/li7000p2.htm 03-13-2001 04:34:29

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) MISMan Profile | Email Well, I found a board and Riser that will work, and only like $60 total. Ram - 128 MB for $40, Processor around $80 or less for the highest end Celeron. Whatcha guys think? Worth it? Peter 03-13-2001 14:06:28

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) MISMan Profile | Email Let me clarify: I found NLX MBoards and Risers. The kind it was designed for, thus I am confident in its ability to fit in there. I have confirmed compatability of board and riser. Peter 03-13-2001 15:08:31

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) epodfreak Profile I'd like to get one as well. The add says it's lacking a "LPX" m-board. The NLX is supposed to be a more recent design. Does anybody know where to get a board cheaply that "for sure" works with it? -Epodfreak 03-13-2001 15:22:01

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) MISMan Profile | Email I know the source for the NLX boards and the Riser card, but am hesitant to post until I am SURE it will fit NLX. The concern is the power adapter. The Tiger site is very specific to mention AT Power supply. Will the NLX boards support that? I am not confident. Probably ATX given the keyboard layout. I am also nervous whether or not the holes will match up in the back. Peter 03-13-2001 17:45:36

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile MISMan, Talk to me baby! As the only person that appears to have ordered one of these things so far, I'm willing to share what I can find out as soon as it arrives. Send me an email off the board and let me know what you're looking at as far as boards and risers. I'll verify fit/form/function when the monitor gets here, and everybody benefits. Since the specs call out an LPX mobo, I'm wary of any 'new improved compatible' (NLX) form factor without knowing all the dirty little details.... B'Dog 03-13-2001 20:14:18

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) MISMan Profile | Email I did not see your e-mail. Mine is peter_m_wallace AT hotmail.com Guyz, as soon as we are confident, we will post links to a 'kit' of sorts. Will be pretty cheap too if you already have a HD as the board and Riser at in the $60 range, the monitor unit $99, Ram $40, and Process at $70 or so. That would be a 5** Celeron. Good deal. Peter 03-13-2001 22:48:20

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile Peter, I sent you an email offline, I'll wait to hear from you.... B'Dog 03-14-2001 07:13:41

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Investa Profile | Email I am interested, keep me posted. After doing some research at intel and http://www.formfactors.org I am concerned as to weather any Riser card will fit. It seems as though they are custom built for the application. Thoughts ? Mike 03-14-2001 17:02:47

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) ckbone Profile I spent quite a while researching this Moniputer....without having much success. Here's what I found. These things were sold in 97/98 mostly as a do-it-yourself computer kit. They were sold by a number of different companies....under different names. Apparently they were sold with a 15" or 17" screen. the picture tube (at least some of them) was made by Philips. The 15" had a 28dpi...at least some of the 17" models had a 42dpi.....which made the whole Moniputer relatively in-expensive for the year. I found this info on several websites....I don't know if it applies to this particular deal. I never could find any info about the dimensions of the M-Board area. But the whole computer area is inclosed in a metal frame which slides out the back. Here's what I'm thinking...Forget the NLX or LPX form factor. You can get a number of really small boards by PCChips. These have headers which let you use AT or ATX power supplies. None of the headers except a large AT keyboard connector are directly attached to the board. They have short cables to attach the serial, parallel, ps2, USB, video and audio....allowing the boards to be used in a variety of cases.....I'm certain they would fit in this Moniputer. You can find these boards using a number of different CPUs...some even come with a 56k modem and LAN. I've had a number of PCChips boards in the past...They all worked fine for me....all had SIS chipsets and were very fast. You can get specs for the different boards off their website. You can buy the things off E-Bay. I think you could put together a pretty good computer very cheap using a Moniputer and a PCChips board. I'm worried about the screen resolution. A 42dpi screen looks pretty bad.... 03-14-2001 18:08:25

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Steve Profile | Email Bubba, would you be able to post some pictures of the motherboard area when your unit arrives? something I just noticed - in the specs it says 1024x768 but in the title on the TigerDirect page says 1280x1024. here's another link http://www.pcquest.com/feb97/2ib0211101.html none of the web pages I found mentioned the screen resolution. 03-14-2001 20:35:50

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) 02U2 Profile The Phillips picture tube used in the Moniputer has a .42 dot pitch as posted earlier by ckbone. THAT COARSE OF DPI REALLY SUCKS.... http://www.winmag.com/library/1996/0496/04ftd002.htm 03-14-2001 20:57:00

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) MISMan Profile | Email The description says is is .28dpi. That is not too bad. Peter 03-14-2001 21:03:26

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) starfish Profile My 2 Cents ! (Opinion !) .42 dot pitch BAD - .28dpi. OK - I Love LCD (Welcome to the 21th Century !) I HATE the "All in One" Form Factor (with a CRT) I even WANT a Detachable Keyboard/Mouse with Any LCD System I Use. In The Last YEAR, All Computer Stuff Has Dropped in PRICE ! (Stop & smell the Flowers !) If You look around, this might Not Be as Big a Deal as You remember ????? (& a kind Request !) This is No Longer News? Please Move this Thread to "I-Opener General Posts" ( The CHAT ROOM ) "All other topics, discussions and general stuff" ............ I m a g i n e ! ............. someone could Subscribe to Just this NEWS Thread & be Notified with EVERY Update !?!?! 03-15-2001 00:03:24

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) ckbone Profile Starfish...I'm sure you have the best of intensions but you must realize it is impossible to get your ducks all in a row....How would you suggest we move this thread to another section? It started out being breaking news....a new computer deal that won't be around long...it still is. We can't pick up this thread and move it. If we start a new topic in the general section, we will then have two topics going on the same subject, the exact thing you (we) want to avoid. As to your objections to an all-in-one computer (crt)....it doesn't stand to reason. An I-Opener, save the screen, is just that. I bought a different all-in one computer/monitor (NEC A1000) from this company some months ago. I managed to use up a bunch of unused parts I had, and sold the thing to a friend....his family loves it. One more thing...has anyone managed to get the I-Opener RISE chip to work in any other m-board? I've tried two different boards with no luck. 03-15-2001 04:52:14

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) info Profile Starfish, Take 1 prozak and chill, It's past your bedtime anyway. The website states .28 DPI but it could be mistaken and it could be really a .42 DPI tube. My first computer was a Pac-bell "all-in-one p-75" The picture tube resolution on that was .42 real grainy. But that was back in 1995. The one I would like to find is that rare controversial e-Machines blue and white Look alike i-mac. That got apple all stirred up enough to take legal action. Guess we will find out soon what the real resolution is on this KDS? 03-15-2001 04:59:08

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile These came in both a .28 & .42 dp version, so hopefully TigerDirect knows what they're talking about. I'll get some digicam shots of the thing when it shows up and post 'em someplace for general consumption. Based on the UPS tracking, it may be here tomorrow. Most of the mobos that MISMan has found are NLX form factor, and are primarily used Gateway pulls. Don't know if they're fit/form/function to LPX, have to do some research. The main downside is none of them include the riser card and I don't know if the NEC riser card he located is compatible. Ah, but that's what makes for the thrill of the hunt, eh? B'Dog 03-15-2001 06:53:51

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) starfish Profile > Starfish...I'm sure you have the best of intentions Thank You ! I have great Respect for You & Your Opinions. Your "I-Opener Tips For New Owners" Series is One of The Best & The Index @ Thread #7 is a Level of Organization, few ever strive for ! > How would you suggest we move this thread to another section? I should have asked, If you could Move this Discussion to a new Thread in the "I-Opener General Posts" section." & Link to It. > If we start a new topic in the general section, > we will then have two topics going on the same subject, > the exact thing you (we) want to avoid. No, the Interesting thing I have noticed, is the General Section has Less Threads then "Breaking News" does.. & with the Link, everyone could find the New Thread You Guys are going to get one or more of these & are going to need to post many more messages on this Deal. No one wants to stop this. We are in The Information Revolution ! > As to your objections to an all-in-one computer (crt)....it doesn't stand to reason. > An I-Opener, save the screen, is just that. A CRT is big, adding the rest of the System to the same box is just to much for me. The Ergonomic issues of Screen placement ( level & tilt ) are normally forgotten when you need to deal with this much weight. This just my opinion. But since you brought up the I-Opener, what makes this system better than just another I-Opener ? So all I am Asking is to think about starting your new thread. & people could subscribe to the News web page & get Updates whenever Breaking News is Posted. In which case, this Chat could be unwelcome ! (& Yes, I know I am Enjoying The "Grumpy Old Man" stage of My Life Way Too Much) 03-16-2001 02:27:59

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) buyplenty Profile Question regarding Rise CPU on another MB. I used as a PNP replacement for a Pentium 200 MMX with no problems whatsoever in my home NT 4.0 server. Runs cool and stable in a server environment. 03-16-2001 20:15:06

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) buyplenty Profile BTW: Tiger charges $52 shipping for this beast to the West Coast. The shipping cost alone kills any further interest with this product. 03-16-2001 20:17:17

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) gregh Profile Look at the Advantech POS-102 riser card for $23 at http://www.advantech.com It may work. Some riser cards and MB are interchangable. Greg 03-17-2001 19:12:36

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) GWIZAH Profile | Email hey you guys see this on the web site? 10.4" color TFT display, resolution: 640 x 480 5x86-133 CPU board 32MB EDO DRAM 3.2 GB 2.5" HDD 10/100Base-T Ethernet Analog resistive touchscreen Downside, Price is $2019!!! Well I guess thats well in the range of a TFT, touchscreen, 3.2 gig, etc. at least they are not claiming its Crusoe-powered! 03-18-2001 06:17:42

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile The Moniputer should be here on Monday, I missed the UPS guy on Friday so he didn't deliver without a signature. In the Tiger Direct print catalog, they have a picture of the back of the unit that shows a pull-out case arrangement and openings for 3 expansion cards off of the riser card. I'll let y'all know what I find when it gets here, and I'll post some pix.... B'Dog 03-18-2001 08:00:53

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) aarons Profile | Email B'Dog, I just ordered one of these as well. Would love to speak with you about your choice of motherboards for this puppy. I searched around and found a couple of dealers here in the states that have LPX motherboards that will take a s370 celeron or slot 1 PII or PIII. I also have a Compaq slimline PC with a PII 450 that I ~believe~ is LPX based - have to take a closer look. Please email me and lets talk about this project! Regards, Aaron cubby@hotmail.com 03-18-2001 09:20:42

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BatMan Profile | Email Hi guys, Just signed up this is a great gp. I've got the moniputer and using it as a monitor for now, I don't know much about resolutions but it is a hell of a nice pic on it great color ect.its got a on screen menu to make all the adjustments. h and v, brightness and contrast its really got great graphics. its a .28 dot pich. I'd like all the info too on where to buy all the inside stuff, I may make a puter out of it yet<grin> Batman P.s. You can e-mail me if you wish 03-19-2001 10:51:04

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Nick Profile You think there would be any way to use a NIC and one of these to create a single unit? (new internet computer) 03-19-2001 14:43:05

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) ckbone Profile Think about this....if the dimensions are right, you could pull the guts out of a websurfer and use it....after all, it has an AT power supply interface, video, audio, usb, etc. 03-19-2001 17:14:30

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile It's here, it's here! Out of the box and half nekkid already. You can see the 'holiday pictures' (nudge, nudge, eh?) at http://y42.photos.yahoo.com/bc/mikemcm1956/lst?.dir=/My+Photos&.view=t The manual has nothing on configuring this as a PC, but it looks like it should take a standard LPX mobo. Only rear connections that can be on the mobo are (left to right) KB, Mouse, Com1, Com2, Parallel and VGA Out). So any boards with USB or Network integrated into the rear panel are probably out of the question. I've got to trace the wires for the integrated speakers and microphone to see how they hook up in the scheme of things, should have more info tomorrow. SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) said my typing just woke her up again. Well, since she's awake now.... B'Dog 03-19-2001 22:36:04

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) MISMan Profile | Email So, Anyone find a good LPX Mobo Combo yet? I found the NLX, but based on the case, it will not work. 03-19-2001 22:44:32

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) 02U2 Profile Now that I've seen a picture of the back side.... I hate to say it but out of several hundred D'dived computers I've salvaged....If I remember correctly, A Packard bell mid tower Mobo w/riser would SEEM to be the closest "fit" so far?....An older compaq MAY work also. One may have to fab a custom interface for the edge connector and the rear connector panel holes (ps/2,db9,etc) may have to be redone.... 03-20-2001 04:03:10

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) aarons Profile | Email Thanks for the pics B'Dog. The only NLX Motherboards (newer socket 370/Slot 1) I have seen have 2 USB and Ethernet connections built in - not so good for the rear panel on this hack. B'Dog - can you tell us how easy/hard it would be to remove the metal backplane? This at least would allow us to use the newer LPX boards that are available, and besides, I want USB in this hack! I've already ordered one Moniputer and it should be here by the end of the week. Regards, Aaron cubby@hotmail.com 03-20-2001 05:23:13

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Programmer Profile I have a Packard Bell Pentium 200 (inherited from Motherinlaw) that looks to have the same form factor, kb, mouse, serials, parallel, and video in the right places, along with the proper number of slots on the riser.. If I recall correctly, they stopped making stuff in this for factor 2-3 years ago when the mATX form came along.. 03-20-2001 06:31:04

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile Programmer, Based on these being mid-1997 vintage monitors (the label on the CRT says "Windows 95 Plug & Play Compatible", how archaic), the mobos were most likely the PentiumII 200MHz variety used by IBM/Compaq/Packard, etcetera. I'm going to take center-to-center measurements on the connectors to work out possible mobo matches. aarons, The rear panel is formed from the lower pan and riveted on the edges to the side panels. There's lots of room in the pan for just about any mobo, and you could outboard the connections to discrete connectors on the back and 'hack' some openings for the ones that aren't already there. That may be the best bet to get some horsepower in this baby. I'm gonna get this working, and not with some candy-ass PII-200 dinosaur. As more develops, I'll post info and pix. Hack On! B'Dog 03-20-2001 07:52:00

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) aarons Profile | Email B'Dog, I may have found a source for some Socket 370 LPX motherboards with built-in Ethernet and USB. The guy is checking stock and will be calling me today. He also has Slot I LPX motherboards that have a 100Mhz FSB that will take Slot I PIII's. I'll post when I hear from him with his supply and prices. Any luck with using NLX motherboards in this hack? My guess is NO, since they probably have ATX power connectors. The LPX Mobo's the guy has have both AT and ATX connectors. Sounds like I may order 1 or 2 more of this moniputers. Aaron cubby@hotmail.com 03-20-2001 08:04:09

OK, I Did It! (modified 0 times) aarons Profile | Email All - Well - I heard back from the supplier and ordered one of these LPX Slot I Motherboards. The great thing is - IT WILL WORK WITH THE EXISTING BACKPLANE!!! The USB and Ethernet ports are installed on a bracket with a ribbon cable to the motherboard. Just pop it in one of the slot openings on the back and you're set. He does have riser cards - but only sells them with cases - since they are very specific. I am sure we can locate some riser cards that will work. Total including Fedex 2-day shipping: $202.95 These Mobo's will take Slot I PII and PIII's up to 800Mhz (and probably further). You can also use a slocket card if you want to use FC-PGA chips. Here's some brief specs: Architecture ISA, IBM PC/AT and PCI 2.1 Compatible. AGP Support 2x sideband addressing provide high performance and quality 3D accelerator. Max. bandwidth 528MB/sec. Chipset VIA Apollo Pro. Winbond W83977TF I/O Controller. Main Memory Three DIMM sockets memory banks 8/16/32/64/128MB 168-pin unbuffered 3.3V SDRAM/EDO. ECC Function ensure data correction and integrity. Maximum Size - 384MB SDRAM or EDO DRAM. Video ATI Rage Pro AGP 2X AGP. Built-in 4MB SDRAM, expandable to 8MB, Software DVD support. Sound On board Creative VIBRA 16XV 3D sound chip. Ethernet On board Realtech RTL 8139A 10/100MHz Ethernet controller. Power Mgmt True green functions: support SMM, SMI and CPU stop clock. ACPI / PC97 compatible. Support both ATX and AT power supply. Integrated I/O port Support 1.44/2.88 Floppy Disk Drives. 2 enhanced PCI IDE channels which support up to 4 IDE devices with PIO mode 4 transfers up to 16.6MB/sec. Support Ultra DMA transfers up to 33MB/sec. Two fast serial (16550) ports, One EPP/ECP parallel port. IrDA support, PS/2 Mouse and Keyboard Connectors. Expansion bracket with USB and E-NET. System BIOS Award Plug-n-Play (256KB) Flash BIOS. Regards, Aaron 03-20-2001 08:51:24

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) MISMan Profile | Email What is the model number and where do we get it please? 03-20-2001 16:33:32

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) bubbaroni Profile I saw that thing in the catalog and it looks just like a Compaq Presario 4402. It came out back in 1996. Might be helpful if you get some info on that while doing the part search for this beauty. We still have that madel in our house if anyone needs some specs off of it. Lemme know. 03-20-2001 17:13:45

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) ckbone Profile From the description of that last m-board, I'd say it was made by PCChips, also known as Alton and sold by a number of different companies and computer makers. You find these boards at computer shows, usually in generic brown boxes, sometimes with different brand names on the box. I'm holding in my hand right now a PCChips board, Slot 1, an AT and an ATX power connector on board, built-in video and audio. All the ports are connected to the board by short ribbon cables...including the USB-PS2 ports, which are on a small board 3"x1 3/4", also attaches via a short cable.This is model M747...The Alton model just like this one had the same model number. This Chinese company makes millions of these boards....many different configurations. They've worked ok for me....except the one I'm holding, which smoked when first powered up. You can find tons of these boards on E-Bay....most for much less than $100. Here's a link to a site which might be of help....I'm sure you can beat that $200 price. http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q3998142/pcchips/ 03-20-2001 17:35:47

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) 02U2 Profile Lucky computers frequently used the PC-CHIPS AKA Alton/Amptron/etc...(Maybe that's why they went belly up) They routinely tossed quit a few of these in there dumpster Re-ESD bagged and Re-boxed. Cronic problems with out of tolerance cpu voltages and DOA. I have a socket "7" plug in Voltmeter board that confirmed bad voltages. I picked up about 2-3 dozen boards every month. Some of the socket 7 cpu sockets had a nice golden brown "Toasted" appearance from the normal white color....Also have many P-II series boards too. I would never buy one of those boards...Better to invest in a Quality well known brand. Why risk toasting a good cpu or corrupted data. 03-20-2001 22:09:27

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) aarons Profile | Email All - I am hesitant to post the site for these boards until I receive mine, install it and make sure that it works well. Suffice to say, these are good, high quality boards that they sell many of as upgrades for many LPX based PC's (IBM, Packard Bell, Compaq, Dell, etc..) I think $202.95 is a decent price considering up until now, the only other option was almost $300. I am also in the process of narrowing down another supplier that will be getting in more Sicket 370 based LPX motherboards that work the same way these slot 1's do. There are 2 models of the S370 - one that goes to 800Mhz (100Mhz FSB) for about $188 and another even better that will take a 1Ghz PIII with a 133Mhz FSB, but expensive at $265. I will keep everyone in touch as soon as I put my system together which should be by this weekend! Regards, Aaron 03-21-2001 05:24:13

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BatMan Profile | Email Hi guys,Has anyone determined if the NLX M/B will work in the moniputer? If not does anyone have a cheap line on LPX boards that will fit.I've got 2 moniputers now and using them for monitors for now, but if I can come up with a reasonably priced set up I may build one up to a moniputer. Love the graphics, dot.28 and resolutions are 1280x1024 and its all digital{ I'm looking at the operations and Instructions guide right now.} Would appreciate someones feed back that has followed this through,and has a little more knowledge on the subject than I do.LOL Bat-Man 03-24-2001 10:45:52

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BatMan Profile | Email Hey B'dog will this lpx board by soyo work in the tray it has a video out that would be useful, /http://www.soyotek.com/sy7000.html It has its own riser with it too TTYL Bat-Man 03-24-2001 11:10:34

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile BatMan, The Soyotek mobo won't work without major case cutting, there are a lot of connectors on this board that don't follow the standard LPX form factor. Check my pictures of the back panel, the link is further up in the thread. I'm looking into some LPX mobos that can take up to 466 Celerons, but the manufacturer only has 20 left in stock with no plans to build more. I'll know if they can get riser cards for them on Tuesday. The mobo by itself is a little over $100 w/o riser, but has everything you need on the board except for a modem. The USB and ENet are on an expansion bracket with cables, everything else is hardwired to the board. Aarons is also working this issue and has came up with some other sources for various flavors of boards. We'll both report back after we get boards in hand and in the Moniputers to make sure they fit and function. Still have to trace the tray connectors and the unpopulated header on the interface board in the case, but minor details compared to the mobo. It appears that there was a push a few years back to design more powerful LPX boards to upgrade the slew of old Compaq/PackardBell/IBM LPX style PCs that were in the field. But since most folks just sh*tcanned the whole thing and bought a new PC, the demand faded rapidly. The newer boards that are out there are end-of-life product, capable but not future upgradeable. Much like the Moniputer, but can make a good little integrated system that will be usable for quite a while.... B'Dog 03-24-2001 21:32:09

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Frakas Profile LPX Motherboards (pulls) available from pcliquidator for $19.99 plus tax/shipping. Includes riser card. Not much other info. -Frakas 03-26-2001 09:14:05

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Frakas Profile Oh, yeah, the link http://www.pcliquidator.com/optiplexmb.htm 03-26-2001 09:14:50

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) MISMan Profile | Email Wonder what the specs on this board are. Heck, for $19, can't hardly go wrong. 03-26-2001 10:47:44

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) badxmaru Profile i'll be the crazy bastage to get it. i was going to put my siemens box's mobo in there, so i cut a hole in the back of the tray (prolly voided the warranty, but that's what these things are for, yah) for ethernet. But dash it all, the siemens pci riser is shifted forward a tad. Anyone who has one of these knows why i get a drumming sound from the speakers and they don't like me?! wish me luck! 03-28-2001 12:00:01

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BatMan Profile | Email OK, right.. Does anyone know how to fix the speakers to keep them from clicking. I hooked up a audio cable from my computer to the audio jack on the back of the moniputer and the speakers worked but there was a void of sound ever time the clicking was heard. I'd like to get mine to work if anyone has a fix for the speakers.I use mine for a monitor and it has a great pic. Thanks. TTYL Bat-Man 03-29-2001 21:09:44

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile Guys, I had also noticed this 'clicking' sound, and mentioned it in an off-line post to aarons, thought that it might be just my unit. It also seems that if you watch the screen closely, there's an occasional jump in the image that syncs with the clicking. I'm going to shoot a email to Tiger Direct, since this seems to be inherent in all the units we have, and see if they have any ideas. I've thought of just disconnecting the speakers from wherever they terminate, don't know if that will also eliminate the screen fluctuation or not. Possibly it's the power supply, maybe hooking a mobo up to the thing will take care of it. It is a nice monitor, but I won't live with that noise or screen jump. I ordered one of the LPX mobos from PCliqudator, the board numbers they provided turn up nothing on Dell's support site. Once I have it in hand I can discern more.... B'Dog aarons - Have you got your new super-duper LPX mobo in yet? 03-30-2001 07:16:42

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile FYI: HiTechCafe has a Pentium based LPX motherboard for $6.00. I don't know how long this will stay at that price (HiTechCafe has some pretty psychotic pricing policies). I doesn't look like it has a riser, but you never know. It may be just the thing to play with until information about the "real motherboards" starts flowing. http://www.hitechcafe.com/eshop/product2.asp?dept%5Fid=11&sku=LPX54 Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 04-01-2001 16:19:16

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile Hmmm, not much progress going on here. Still no word from TigerDirect on the click/jump thingy, I'll try rattling their cage on the 'ol land line tomorrow and see what's up. The mobo from PCLiquidators is another problem. It's not a standard LPX mobo, the footprint is OK, but the connector layout on the back panel is non-standard. It'll require some serious Dremel work on the rear housing of the Moniputer to get it to fit. And to add insult to injury, the riser card was not included as advertised. So I don't even know if it will line up properly when the board is installed. Oh well, oh hell, another phone call tomorrow. From what I can see on the jumpers on the mobo, it can take up to a 266 processor. Yowzah, but still better than the $6 90/100MHz mobo from HiTech Cafe w/o riser. What to do, what to do, hmmm? Aarons, where are you with this? I'll drop you a line off-line.... B'Dog 04-02-2001 19:07:15

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) aarons Profile | Email Hello all - sorry for the absense! To my knowledge, I am not experiencing the clicking sound and shaky display you guys are. I did install the PII/PIII DTK Motherboard in the moniputer and everything is working well. I even installed an 8x DVD-Rom drive and PowerDVD and DVD's actually play well on it! The processor I put in is a PII 400Mhz with 128MB Ram and a 6.4GB Hard Drive. The USB works great and I even connected it to my 802.11b wireless home network with a DLink DWL-120 USB Wireless adapter. The right speaker in my Moniputer is out though. I only get sound out of the left speaker. Havent had a chance to diagnose the problem.. First I'll check the audio cable that came with the Moniputer - If thats not it then I'm guessing it's either a loose wire inside or just a dead speaker. I bought the "Ultra 200" DTK Motherboard from Link Computers: http://www.linkcomputers.com for $203 delivered Fedex 2nd day air. Speak with "Vin" and tell him Aaron sent you. Just one note -- if you get this motherboard, there is only 1" of clearance between the "Slot 1" socket for the PII/PIII and part of the metal cage that the hard drive connects to. I had to go to the local monthly computer show to dig up a 1" deep heatsink with embedded fan that would fit! It also makes the hard drive mounting a bit trickier since the Slot 1 PII sticks up right in the middle of where you would normally mount it. Another vendor: http://www.hongfaith.com is selling a couple of different Socket 370 versions of the DTK motherboard. Look closely, some version don't have Audio or Lan. I will boot up the Moniputer tonight and take a closer look at my right speaker and also see if I am experiencing the clicking/screen shake you guys are. Take care and let me know how you are all doing with this project! Regards, Aaron cubby@hotmail.com 04-03-2001 03:27:35

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) YouBecha Profile This is a neat thread, $290 (plus drives) computer with 17" screen...man I need one. I would like to know how the resolution is, and the heat with that P!!. I think the socket 370 would give more room. Too bad I am between jobs and about to move, or else I would have another thing to clutter up the room. BTW tigerdirect site says the monitor includes a cable...can you use it as a standard VGA monitor, if so how does it look? http://www.geocities.com/mr_bubba_zanetti/ 04-03-2001 18:37:34

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile Did you have to do anything special to use this thing as a monitor? The Moniputer I received does not show any video. I tried it with several good video sources. The power indicator doesn't even come on. It just sits there with the speaker clicking . Did I miss something or did I get a defective monitor? BTW, is it just me or does the TigerDirect's "on-hold" music want to make you seriously injure someone? Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 04-04-2001 13:42:07

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile FYI, I noticed that the fans on the inside of the Moniputer were turning very slow. A quick check with a multimeter confirmed that the power supply was not operating properly. I placed a 20 ohm load on the 5v leads of the AT connector and the power supply started working. I looks like the power supply does need a load. This is not uncommon. There seems to be only one power supply in the Moniputer. This supply also powers the CRT controller board. When I added the load, the speaker clicking changed. Adding a load may help those of you that are using this strictly as a monitor. YMMV. Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 04-07-2001 07:14:15

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile I got my replacement Moniputer today. This one also also had the speaker clicks. However, it did power up and display video. I put a load on the power supply (an old hard drive and CDROM) and the speaker clicks disappeared. The video is stable also. Now I just need a motherboard for it.... Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 04-10-2001 21:42:18

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) MISMan Profile | Email Did we ever get figured out a motherboard that works for sure? 04-11-2001 15:18:29

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile MISMan: I got one of the $6.00 LPX boards from HiTechCafe and it fits perfectly. It only supports Pentium 90 & 100's (I'm running my old P133 @ 100). I've tried both FPM and EDO memory and both work. It complained about the ECC memory that I stuck in (I'm not sure that the memory is good). The board does NOT come with a riser. Playing with this thing is like stepping back in time 6 years. Its slow but it works. It should be OK for kids games and maybe a terminal services client. I talked to Ven at LinkComputers today. They are no longer selling the motherboards by themselves. They will only sell it as a "upgrade system". This includes the motherboard, riser card and processor. The cheapest bundle was with a P3-500 and cost $400. IMHO, it is not worth it. To me it sounds like they learned about the Moniputers and decided to do some profiteering. Maybe not, but that's my opinion. YMMV. I also talked to American Predator. They have a very nice LPX board that looks like it will work (Raptor LPX). The motherboard is $400 but they want to sell a bundle with a processor and memory. The cheapest that you could get out the door is about $600 plus shipping. To rich for my blood. I plan on running the HiTechCafe board until I can find a regular AT motherboard to put in it. There seems to be enough room for "standard height" ISA and PCI cards. What I mean by "standard height" is that the card is not much higher than the "L" for the mounting screw. It will be easy to make "extension cables" to bring the video, keyboard, etc. signals from the back of the motherboard to connectors mounted in the standard LPX locations. I've even thought about buying another HiTechCafe board to hack apart for the connectors. I doubt that I can get them cheaper than $6. Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 04-11-2001 19:51:12

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile Check out the DTK PRM-68I at http://www.dtk.com.tw/mboard/68i.html They have about 20 pieces left, with no further builds planned. The price is right at $130, but the risers are a little pricey at $40. Oh well, get 'em while ya can. Call DTK at 626-810-0098 (Pacific Time) and ask for Kristin in sales. Tell her that Mike told you about it, I mentioned to her that these might disappear fast once the word got around.... B'Dog 04-11-2001 20:15:32

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) VivianC Profile Anyone make any progress with motherboards in these? I'd like to find something that I can add an AGP card to os I can have an all-in-one machine for Lan Parties. VC 04-16-2001 09:09:54

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) PorscheMan Profile | Email I have some insight into the clicking noise several have mentioned on this machines. As received "out of the box," the contrast and brightness controls on my unit were at/near maximum, and I experienced the clicking noise. I adjusted the contrast and brightness to proper levels and all the clicking went away, on two computer systems I tried. FWIW. Don't look back, I may be gaining on you! 04-16-2001 16:10:55

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile No luck with the contrast/brightness on my system, hopefully will go away when I get a mobo inside the thing. I should have the DTK board by mid-week, and will chase down a processor and get some feedback to y'all ASAP. As mentioned, DTK has few of these left so get 'em while you can.... B'Dog 04-16-2001 17:48:41

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile BubbaDog56: Thanks for the lead on the motherboards. I ordered one from DTK and it should be delivered on Wednesday. Have you tried putting a load on the power supply yet? Also, on my machine the connections between the tray and the main chassis are not reliable. Sometimes I have to reseat the tray several times to get good connections. VivianC: I haven't stumbled across a LPX motherboard with an AGP slot. I'd be surprised if one was made. The best I think you could hope for is either AGP video on board or a nice PCI graphics card on the riser. Be careful if you use a "hot running" graphics card. The Moniputer chassis doesn't seem to lend itself to good airflow. All: I backtraced the connectors to the front panel. yellow/green - reset switch black/brown - hard drive led +/- red/orange - power led +/- Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 04-16-2001 19:43:14

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile Glitch, Thanks for the pinout info, any idea what the unused 2 post header is for on the small docking PCB? I'm looking forward to getting the mobo in and running, and making a permanent home for this somewhere on the home network.... B'Dog 04-17-2001 09:23:55

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) badxmaru Profile anyone know where ot get the risers? i'm getting the mobo but it'd be nice to add on a pci card eventually 04-17-2001 11:31:42

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile badxmaru, Most of your mobos take risers designed specifically for their board, the manufacturer may be able to supply one if the board is still supported with spare parts. What board are you getting? B'Dog 04-17-2001 12:20:07

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile BubbaDog56: I'm not sure what that header is for. On my machine it has 3 pins. I'm guessing that it is for the microphone. Or maybe for the infrared port. Or maybe for the motherboard speaker. Someday I might have to take the cover off and see where it goes. Hopefully someone else will figure it out before me. As far as riser cards... Aren't many of them based on a standard extended ISA slot? I know very little about these. I just "gave in" and bought the $40 riser with the motherboard. Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 04-17-2001 19:16:47

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile Bubbadog56: I traced the empty 3-pin header last night. Basically, it goes nowhere. There is a cable attached to the female edge connector and there is a 3-pin connector on the end of the cable. There is no place to install the connector. There is an spot on the button board (front panel switches) where a 3-pin header for the infrared transmitter/reciever could be installed. However, neither the header nor the infrared component are installed. I have pictures of the button board if you are interested. It would be an easy hack to add infrared to the Moniputer. BTW, there is no microphone installed in the microphone opening at the top of the front bezel. Also, do the slots of your riser card line up with the card slots in the tray? Mine seems to be off by a "half-slot". Right now it seems like I've wasted $40 on the riser card. I took some time to reallign the card edge connectors that transfer the power and button signals to the motherboard tray. I was getting intermittant connections on the power signals and the -12v signal would never make contact. The connection is much more reliable now that it has been realligned. Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 04-19-2001 06:21:20

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile Glitch, Just got my mobo yesterday, no time to play with it yet. The riser problem sounds like a bummer, I imagine mine is the same way but I'll let you know. The other p*sser is there was no manual with the mobo, but I think I remember one online somewhere.... B'Dog 04-19-2001 06:39:39

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Programmer Profile Glitch: try a different height of standoff.. usually the correct height comes with the case.. but in this case.. :) .. you probably didn't recieve any??? 04-19-2001 13:16:15

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile Bubbadog56: I downloaded a copy of the manual from HongFaith's website. Here is the manual url for the motherboard that I ended up with. ftp://www.hongfaith.com/manuals/68iE103.pdf BTW, did yours come with on-board LAN? It was not installed on the board the I got. Programmer: The only riser that I have was the one I bought from DTK. A friend of mine is gathering up all the risers that he has and will bring them over tomorrow. Maybe one of these will work. I need to call DTK tomorrow and see if they have risers in different heights. Right now I'm stuck without networking on the machine (no riser, no on-board LAN). Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 04-19-2001 16:40:09

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile Glitch, Thanks for the link, I think that's the same one I had before my main system went belly-up and I had to reformat the HD. Hopefully I'll have a little time tomorrow to open up the Moniputer and see how everything fits, still need to get a processor.... B'Dog 04-19-2001 18:17:56

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) 02U2 Profile If anyone in the SEATTLE area has one of those Moniputers and is interested in some free Motherboards with risers.... I went D-Divin' earlier and ran across a dumpster about 1/2 full of these IBM POS and desktop machines that have MUCH older LPX motherboards...I grabbed about 5 of them. I was thinkin' about you guys while checking these out. There is a diagram under the cover and they appear to only support up to a p-166... The riser has shared 3 Pci/3 Isa. M/B cpu settings set by dip switch. Looks like onboard sound and video on some. I don't know what working condition these are but I've recovered computers from this same company in the past and they worked fine. Looks like some store had upgraded. I'm pulling the boards and returning the cases tommorrow am. I don't have any room for storage! I won't ship. please don't ask,To much hassle and for me the boards aren't really worth it, but if someone here in Seattle has time we could meet and I'll GIVE all away all 5 provided one won't try and make a profit from it...YOU could take the time forward to folks if there is ANY interest..(PS... no CPU no RAM no HDD's). Also remember it is possible that there MAY be problems with some of these boards. But for free one can't gripe a whle lot... Phalon3@yahoo.com 04-19-2001 20:49:35

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) 02U2 Profile I'm cancelling the above offer. 2days and no takers anyway, I may have found a cheap 400mhz cpu upgrade for these... 04-21-2001 19:18:20

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BatMan Profile | Email Hi guys has anyone came up with anymore info on a motherrboard w/riser card thats reasonable priced and has onboard audio,sound and modem. About a 200mhz cpu would be ok. I'm still looking myself. TTYL Bat-Man P.S. One that someone has installed and know that it works<GRIN> 05-25-2001 08:04:17

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile BatMan: I have the DTK Socket 370 LPX motherboard working. It took some creative metalworking to get the openings in the back to line up with the slots of the riser card (1 PCI, 1 combo PCI/ISA). The expansion card openings are attached to the rest of the tray with two rivets. I removed these and cut about 3/16" off the top of the opening assembly. I reinstalled the assembly 3/16" higher than stock. Everything lines up now and it is hard to tell that the anything was done to the case. The I use the top two openings (non-riser) for the USB and sound/game port outlets. A network card is in the third opening (top riser slot). The fourth (bottom) (combo PCI/ISA slot) is empty. I'm not sure if the motherboards are still available directly from DTK (cheapest source). BTW, my motherboard did NOT have the on-board network adapter. It cost $103 for the motherboard and $40 for the riser card. I had the Micronics LPX motherboard from HiTech installed and working. I never tried a riser with this. It uses the "all ISA slot" style riser like the Advantech POS-103. However, the best I ever got it to run was a Pentium 100. The PCliqudator board mentioned above does not work. I know this is not what you wanted, but here goes anyway. CompGeeks had a Socket7 LPX board that looks like it will fit. This with an Advantech POS-102 riser (or the riser mentioned below) might just work. It looks like Link Computers still has the LPX System Upgrades available. These are based off a DTK motherboard. IMHO, $370.00 is too much (even with processor). Hong Faith also has DTK motherboards for sale. I never got a response from them when I was looking for a motherboard (they may have been on vacation?). Their prices seem a bit high. However, it looks (based on eyeball measurements, no guarantees) like the Riser Card SL will work with the Moniputer without mods. HTH Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 05-25-2001 20:15:50

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile Glitch, Got any pix of the mod you made to the back panel? I'm going to get around to putting mine together maybe this weekend, and would like to see what you did. I've got the same DTK mobo and riser, I need to pick up a CPU and some memory to get going on this. I'm on my second Moniputer, I had the first one hooked up to my desktop for a while and it suddenly died. Had a major hassle getting a replacement, Tiger bought these from UBid and neither of them wanted to issue an RMA and replace it. Took about a dozen phone calls to both of them before Tiger finally took ownership and sent me another one. Hope it lasts longer than the first.... B'Dog 05-26-2001 08:33:24

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile BubbaDog56: I will try to put together a something that shows what I did sometime this weekend. I also modified the case with quieter fans. The stock setup has a 80mm and 60mm fan drawing air from the computer tray into the monitor area. I enlarged the opening for the 60mm fan so I could mount an 80mm. I replaced both fans with Silencer Fans from PC Power & Cooling. I'm using an Alpha heatsink with a 60mm fan running at about 9v. With this setup there is hardly any fan noise. Now the only significant noise is from the hard drive and CDROM. Your report of a failed Moniputer is making me a bit nervous now that I've hacked apart the case. I'm on my second one also. My first one was DOA. I hope that these things are reasonably reliable once they get past the infant mortality stage. Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 05-26-2001 09:38:05

RE:All-in-one computer deal. (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile Bubbadog56: I put a diagram of my tray mod here: http://members.home.net/smoke-liberator/Other_Projects/moniputer_mods.htm The general idea is to remove metal to allow the part to be reinstalled "higher" than the stock position. Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 05-27-2001 10:16:09

Reply to Thread | Printer | All times are PST Powered by UltraBoard v1.62

I-Appliance BBS General - NEWS, Breaking NEWS - linux-hacker.net BBS on CD Questions - User Groups in Your Town - E-Bay, Yahoo Auction LINKS ONLY (MODERATED) - Jokes & Humor - usdtv box I-Opener Areas - I-Opener General Posts - I-Opener Technical Stuff - I-Opener Technical Info Reference (MODERATED) WebSurfer Areas - WebSurfer General Posts - WebSurfer Technical Stuff - WebSurfer Technical Info Reference (MODERATED) Other I-Appliances - Virgin Webplayer - WebPal - MailStation - 3Com Audrey - ThinkNIC / Oracle NIC - Gateway/AOL Connected Touch Pad - Philips/AOL-TV - ACER NT-150 STB - MSN Companion - Compaq IA - Emachines IA - IBM NetVista IA - Intel dot.station - MSNTV2 Network Computers - Fujitsu-Siemens Scovery Linux Net Computers - GallantWeb Server Consoles - Dreamcast - xbox hacking Web Pads - Epods One General Post - Panasonic CF-01 - Fujitsu Stylistic 1200 - Cybiko Thin Clients - Thin Clients DigitalVideoRecorders - DTV Recorders, Replay, TiVo, Etc... - Tivo Hacks Linux - Midori Linux General Board - ITX MotherBoards Single Board Computers - Earth Computers mARMalade Elite Member Area MISC Areas - The Swap Meet WE TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY TRANSACTION HERE AND NO COMMERCIAL POST PERIOD !!! - Wireless Net - Cameras - Robotics - Routers/Gateways - Mattel JuiceBox