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MS XBox is a PC
MS XBox is a PC

New MessageMS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) wiggles
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Guys,

As the launch date of the MS XBox approaches, I want to start discussing regarding the hackability of this box. We have more information about the XBox than we have historically had about any other hackable Internet appliance on the market, and I want to collect some of this information here.

The XBox will be sold at $299.99 per unit. A single unit costs Microsoft $425 to manufacture. MS eats a loss of $125 per unit. Compared to I-Openers and GCT's, this is par for the course. The difference is that (unlike other Internet appliances) there is no contract involved whatsoever. Microsoft is *hoping* that you will purchase XBox games, and they will get indirectly through the licensing fees developers pay per copy of each game. This is not required legally. Once you purchase an XBox, your transaction with MS is complete and you have no remaining oblications left. If you don't buy any games (and instead hack your XBox) there is absolutely nothing that MS can do about it, except whine. (And eat the loss) Not that you will bankrupt them, but it's always good to have Billy subsidize your hacking activities.

Now for the architecture of the XBox: A recent Wired article showed a full-page picture of what was supposedly the final version of the XBox innards. I will see if I can scan it. The innards have a GeForce3 variant (onboard), onboard sound, P3-733, 64 Megs of memory, 10 gigs of HD space, 4 USB ports called "controller ports" (haha) and a huge heatsink. The USB ports mounted on the case look different than the standard USB form factor to make it inconvenient to plug in standard USB peripherals. This is Microsoft's "embrace and extend" at work. Chances are that buying some standard USB ports and soldering them at the connection points on the motherboard will take care of this "little" problem.

Most everything appears to be surface mounted, so upgrade potential on this box is close to zero. I believe that hackability potential will shine through software hacks. The first steps to gaining control of the box would be to remove or replace the HD, and somehow plug a USB keyboard into one of the USB ports. (It is unlikely that PS2 ports will be made available) The rest should be easy.

This constitutes some initial impressions and informations about the XBos. I hope to see this thread extend in scope, and ultimately, to get its own forum. Thank you.

05-20-2001 10:09:29

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) chaezewhiz
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Well the first thing to do is put a better OS on it.....

http://slashdot.org/articles/01/05/20/1343238.shtml

It's a memory configuration, yeah that's the ticket.
The box definitely has potential for other purposes, just like Nokia's XboX competitor.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/05/14/1537214&mode=thread

-chaeze


Miracle in a Can
05-20-2001 16:39:06

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) wiggles
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Nokia does not have an XBox competitor. Nokia is not stupid enough to take on compaies ten times their size. (Sony and Microsoft) The Nokia MediaTerminal is primarily positioned as a PTV unit. (A competitor to Tivo and ReplayTV) It is not positioned as a console. It does have an extensible, open source OS that makes gaming a bonus functionality for people who are already looking for a PTV unit. However, gaming is not the primary purpose of this unit, and it's not even a significant feature of the unit. It's mostly a tacked-on afterthought.

With that said, the Nokia MediaTerminal, like the XBox, is a PC-in-a-black-box and is likely to be hackable just as easily. (Possibly a little bit easier than the XBox) However, the XBox has better specs, and is likely to have a cheaper RRP.

05-20-2001 16:47:35

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) chaezewhiz
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I used competitor in a loose sense. Here is another link for a teamup of Loki and Nokia:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/05/16/1330236&mode=thread

Loki is a heavy player in developing/porting games to linux. I think Nokia is trying to keep
the NetworkTerminal wide open (purpose wise).

Have you seen their OST project site?
http://www.ostdev.net/

Anyway, looks like an Indrema incarnate, but with much better backing. Looks like a fun road
ahead;)

-chaeze


Miracle in a Can
05-21-2001 10:16:30

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) BalloFruit
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I knew this sounded familiar.....check out this link......


http://slashdot.org/apache/01/04/12/1713243.shtml

05-23-2001 14:46:16

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) human_fly
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wiggles dont worry about the smd stuff
"Most everything appears to be surface mounted, so upgrade potential on this box is close to zero. I believe that hackability potential will shine through software hacks. "
if you know of something you want done let me know, im an EE student at the u of a who does all the smd rework in tucson and am good at it too, let me know if i can help, probably not for free but if we all get something out of it, maybe that'l be enough.
mark
djmarek@hotmail.com
05-23-2001 16:47:35

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) wiggles
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human_fly,

I have no doubt that there are a few professionals among this crowd who can solder and desolder tiny surface mounted components, blindfolded, with both hands tied behind their back. That is not the point. The point is to develop hacks that can be reused by most anyone with a reasonable amount of technical knowledge. It is my belief that soldering and desoldering surface mounted components is a high-risk and high-difficulty enterprise that would be out of reach of most of our audience.

Any hack that is developed will have to be summarized or packaged in a way that makes it accessible to a reasonably technical individual. This has been the case so far with most of the hacks on the internet appliances of the past.

One hardware hack that will be useful (from what I can see of the X-Box design so far) will be to develop adaptors that convert from standard USB to Microsoft's bastardized USB ports. These adaptors would be sold to hobbyists in the same way that Ken sells his conversion kits. Such an adapter would allow someone to connect standard USB peripherals to an X-Box (most significantly a keyboard) and, along with a capable OS on its hard disk, would convert the X-Box into a full fledged PC.

05-24-2001 22:00:55

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) laserfan
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>The point is to develop hacks that can be reused by most anyone with a reasonable amount of technical knowledge.

Hmmm. I thought hacking was all about having FUN! And learning along the way...

05-25-2001 10:30:45

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) LD37
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i thought MS announces many, many , MANY moons ago the XBox was a PC that specialized in gaming, running a form of Windows...not really breaking news

there have been news stories and articles about using the XBox in a server farm type situation...like an ISP...booting the OS (FreeBSD with Apache probably) off the CD and using the internal HDD as storage...you could make a REALLY cheap server farm with a lot of storage in a compact space...the price per GB storage is amazingly low

05-30-2001 08:36:05

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) *SF*
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http://www.wirednews.com/news/technology/0,1282,44256,00.html

With the nForce, nVidia is taking on Intel at its own game, and bringing the technology it developed for the Xbox to the PC market.

For now, the nForce is only available on motherboards for AMD's Athlon and Duron processors

06-04-2001 15:20:27

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) Programmer
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Given the amount of new tech and all my favorite features in that thing, I'll be a guinea pig when a MB with it comes out.. :)
06-05-2001 07:01:45

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) SiliconIce
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Wouldn't it be cool if XBOX could be made to play those DivX CDs that your set-top DVD player can't?
09-23-2001 00:05:29

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) SteveInNC
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One disadvantage re: affordability, all references I've seen so far indicate that MS is insisting that all of the initial units be sold as part of "package deals", along with some set of games and useless carry cases et al. This is one way for them to force some royalties revenue. It may be 1st quarter 02 before you see any sold strictly as standalone.
09-24-2001 14:52:40

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) poisonfistclan
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hello all

hacking the xbox isnt a realistic thing to do nor is it cost effective either.
at 299 for the listed specs you can get an actual pc with better capabilities from a place like compgeeks and not have to bother with modifying the xbox.
some people might disagree but whats the point ,for the sheer novelty of it?? i mean wow . if you look at past mods that have been done it was cool like a websurfer for 49 bucks or i-opener for 99 those were items worth moding ,and fun to do as well but to take a three hundred dollar computer(xbox) and spend more time and money to make no more than just a cool looking computer you can just get a book pc or whole setup for the same price and not waste the time to modify an xbox when you can get the pc to do everything if not more for the same if not less money. and forget the whole soldering usb ports and swapping drives and the like

just one guys opinion thanks alot!!!!

09-27-2001 10:55:16

New MessageMAME for Xbox (modified 0 times) SiliconIce
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MAME for Xbox already (supposedly).
http://www.xboxemulation.net
there's a link at that site.
09-27-2001 15:48:56

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) scootertechno
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I Agree with poison, unless one wishes to hack the XBOX just for the hell of it (which is a waist of $300) but I must say the specs look preety impressive for a console box, which brings up another issue, if one does hack it, finding the drivers for the "custom designed nvidia chip" not to mention the other hardware in the XBOX will be a royal pain in the butt.

But that is just my opinion.

09-28-2001 08:29:36

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) slamri
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Think the big thing here is trying to be able to add items to the box to do extra's... like play Divx and have a mp3 compatable music player... Add remote control... Kewl stuff you wish your tv could control on it's own....
09-30-2001 20:17:43

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) wiggles
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Hacking the XBox is definitely worth it.

The GeForce3 itself, if purchased seperately, costs $200 at least. Add on top of that a 10 Gig HD, a 733 Mhz Celeron (not P3), 64 Mb RAM, DVD-ROM drive, cool-looking black desktop case, 4 USB ports, onboard sound, onboard NIC, adequate cooling and cabling, and you're definitely getting a lot of hardware for your money.

The XBox is a complete PC. One should not need any extra hardware to add to it. The only problems will be overwriting the firmware of the DVD-ROM to enable it to read CDRs and CDRWs, and getting at the XBox's BIOS to enable CD booting so that one may repartition the HD and install other OS'es on it.

11-17-2001 17:22:27

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) SiliconIce
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The architecture of the Xbox is fundamentally different from that of a PC. I don't think hacking it will be as easy as some think.
11-17-2001 18:57:03

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) bani
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How is it fundamentally different from a PC?

Do you have specifics you would like to share?

11-19-2001 04:27:40

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) GWIZAH
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Hmmm, lookit this...
http://www.icrontic.com/index.php?page=public/articles&articleId=101

Hacking it LOOKS very do-able! Oh well, say goodbye $299...

11-19-2001 18:28:32

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) SiliconIce
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I can't remember the specifics, but I read somewhere...I'll look for the link.

The main difference I think had to with the bus, I think how Xbox shares it differently.

11-19-2001 23:37:40

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) wiggles
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Xbox is fundamentally different from archaic PC architectures, where the CPU has its own memory, the GPU has its own memory, and so on.

It instead uses the memory architecture of recent all-in-one motherboards to streamline production and reduce costs. In this architecture, the CPU, the GPU, the sound card, etc, all access and use the same pool of memory, 64 Mb of RAM in the case of the Xbox.

There are currently thousands of such systems available for sale, mostly from bargain basement manufacturers like emachines. All-in-one motherboards that share a pool of memory are most certainly nothing new. I believe that the specific all-in-one motherboard used by the Xbox is based on the Nvidia nForce specification, but do not quote me on that.

11-20-2001 00:57:04

New MessageRE:MS XBox is a PC (modified 0 times) *SF*
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XBox Forum here @ The I-Appliance BBS
11-20-2001 02:04:54

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