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I-Opener compared to Shuttle SV24
Discussion of alternative upgrade path for I-Opener users

New MessageI-Opener compared to Shuttle SV24 (modified 0 times) zyxw
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Hi,
If you read the title and think this is meant to be unfair, fret not. This isn't merely to pick on the I-Opener, but to see if a discussion of the SV24 as a path for I-Opener upgrades is of any general interest.

Some background, my daughter has been loving (hating, abusing and most of all USING) her dog eared I-Opener for almost 2 years. However as she has grown so has the software she runs, more and more stuff isn't working, or is working poorly. Even when bumpted to 300Mhz, the I-Opener is still slow.

My first hope of upgrade was the net-computer from microcenter, I tried to get one, however I was unable to snag one. $99 is hard to pass up, for an I-Opener or for anything else really. Some on the network computer thread have mentioned some problems... thus perhaps I'm sort of glad I was forced to go another route.

Outpost is selling an SV24 for $299 with a 1.1Ghz Celeron (running 100Mhz bus speed) ultimately my inability to snag a dirt cheap network computer (or anything else) and watching my child not enjoy her computer as much caused me to take the leap.

The I-Opener and network computer beat the pants off the SV24 in terms of price, the SV24 is $299 for case/mb/cpu plus $80 for 512MB of ram (compgeeks) and $68 for dvd player (also compgeeks) not to mention $359 for a 15" flat panel screen (from Dell, 20% off $449 it includes speakers and has analog and DVI inputs). This is not inexpensive, do you get what you pay for (of course on this group everyone wants everything free). Hard drive was the only thing carried over with a $3.95 adapter.

Ok, so for about $800 we wind up with a 1.1Ghz 15" screen sized (decent screen) DVD playing 512MB I-Opener like device with a lot of ports for various devices. This vs say $99 for the I-Opener, $87 for an external USB CD ROM, $59 for 128MB of SODIMM, $39 for USB ethernet. Yup the I-Openers not free compared to this, but the cost of an I-Opener is more about $250-300ish with CD ROM (note also the SV24 has built in ethernet). Frugal people may also note the SV24 can do 800x600 on a TV (it's got the best TV output I have ever seen), thus someone frugal may wish to discount the cost of the monitor and then discount the memory down to about $39 from $80 for 128MB to have the systems comparable memorywise, this results if you really cust corners in a cost differential of at a minimum $100 SV24 over I-Opener. I don't view this as practical, however if you have an HDTV or have kids who mostly game... it's viable. I found the TV output of the SV24 superior to the I-Opener at 800x600 fwiw.

Ok, so lets say you find $800 high, but affordable. What do you get, is a great system built like a brick. It's amazingly stable, and has most of the bells and whistles you could want from a small desktop computer. I'll now review what the SV24 has over the I-Opener, and what the I-Opener has over the SV24, also what neither has but should (imho).

SV24 positives vs I-Opener......
1) Faster than heck, more memory than you'd dream of in an I-Opener, 512MB DIMM just popped in and ran right away.
2) USB ports in front (2) this is a mercy, very useful.
3) Headphone and Mic ports also in front (this really helps when you don't want to hear a billion repetitions of the hundred things kids play).
4) Restart button under power button, very easy to restart on hard crash.
5) Solidity, it's not as timid as the I-Opener, the case is all metal, but still it's light.
6) DVD/CD built in, USB CD is nice, but lets face it, it isn't 48x read, it isn't 12 or 16x write in cd or 8x read in dvd.
7) Ports, 2 firewire, 2 usb in back (2 in front), serial, parallel, ethernet, speaker out, line in, TV out (composit and Super, plus VGA), keyboard and mouse. Really at least one of any port you'd expect and sometimes 2 of those you'd not.
8) One real honest to goodness PCI slot!
9) The SV24 can boot anything, USB, SCSI, ZIP, hard, soft it doesn't care. USB FDD, USB HDD, USB CD ROM, ZIp Drive, network boot... it really doesn't seem to care, almost anything you can attach to it can be booted from.

------------
Things the I-Opener has over the SV24....
1) Built in Monitor (yeah it sorta sucks, but at the cost it was/is still great and you can always use vga if desperate).
2) Built in speakers.
3) VOLUME control, big easy and often used! (this mitigates against the positive of the SV24 having headphone jacks, I wish the SV24 also had a volume/mute control on the front panel).
4) Cost, it is still darned cheap
5) NO FANS, the I-Opener was the quietest thing I ever used, and the SV24 is noisy compared to it (but quiet relative to other towers I have).

-----------------
Things neither has but could use...
1) AGP slot, any future appliance device which doesn't have a 4x AGP slot is imho toast once someone develops one with this feature, likely more than anything else the I-Opener groups were unable to overcome the limited graphic engine of the I-Opener while the SV24 has a single PCI slot permitting a video card to be installed, lets face it AGP 4x would have been sweeter.

2) PCI slots, while the SV24 has one, IMHO any decent appliance will have either 1 PCI and 1 AGP slot, or 1 AGP and 1 or 2 notebook PCI type slots.

3) CF readers, the I-Opener permitted installation, but it'd be nice to have had this on both devices out of the box.

---------
Well that's it. Constuctive dialog (not necessarily in agreement, just no slander please) is always appreciated

01-30-2002 17:44:04

New MessageRE:I-Opener compared to Shuttle SV24 (modified 0 times) Linuxguru
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Slightly tangential question: Is there a FlexATX Athlon/Duron motherboard that will fit in the SV24 case? I saw some Shuttle-branded Socket-A motherboards at Fry's, but I wasn't sure if it would fit in the SV24, which is also available at Fry's for $249 (barebones w/i815 MB, w/o CPU). There may also be heat issues.
01-30-2002 19:01:13

New MessageRE:I-Opener compared to Shuttle SV24 (modified 0 times) Zogg
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This was the basic conclusion I came to a year ago. I had two I-Openers, neither of which I was able to upgrade and have a stable system. I wanted a small computer for my wife to use in the kitchen. The IO was the perfect size, but the performance just wasn't there and the display left a lot to be desired. I wound up spending about $800 on an IBM NetVista, their all-in-one IO shaped computer with 15" TFT display. It has been rock solid, does everything we want it to, and has not let me down. I can't say my IO experience was anywhere near that good.

Recently I considered the SV24 to use as my home server, as I wanted a small box that would fit on the shelf of my computer hutch. But the one limited-size PCI slot turned me off. I wound up buying a bookshelf-sized FIC Sabre computer from Fry's that has 3 PCI slots. You can't put long cards in, but mid-size PCI cards work. The price was about the same as the SV24. I crammed an ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon PCI card in it, along with a DVD-CDRW drive and it's now my multimedia box as well.

I still read the boards here, but not for IO stuff. They are too slow, and the display stinks. But if you're happy with yours, then that's all that matters.

01-30-2002 19:34:51

New MessageRE:I-Opener compared to Shuttle SV24 (modified 0 times) zyxw
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Hi Zogg,
Hmm... not sure what the dimensions are on a book pc, the SV24 literally is the size of a 4 slice toaster... it looks awfully much like one also.... we're very pleased with it overall, it's been 100% stable. My daughter likely won't need more than the single PCI slot, I'm about to take a plunge to buy one for my wife. The form factor is very hard to match, also as a cube it's very stable, light enough also that it appears if dropped it'd survive without much self dinging or dinging anything else (it's amazingly light, lighter than a toaster).

Soldam sells a large form factor version of an SV24 like cube which REALLY is a cube, 225x225x225 sold as Pandora Plus (with an extra external bay to boot). However it's $450 for the case/mb without processor... thus it's close to $550 when compared to the $399 SV24... personally I'd prefer notebook slots and one agp slot... I think it'd permit extension and customization but still permit the very small form factor of the SV24.

Do you like the book size? I was concerned it'd still be too close to a tower, literally 3 of these SV24's stacked wouldn't be as high as my Enlight tower and they are also only 2/3's as deep (about the width of a CD/DVD drive plus 1 or 1.5 inches... stack about 4 CD drives on top of each other add an inch in width and 6" in depth and you have about the size of this.

01-31-2002 07:57:25

New MessageRE:I-Opener compared to Shuttle SV24 (modified 0 times) h2oboxer
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I have both the SpaceWalker and an Iopener as well as 2 Scoveries an Audrey and a VP6 dual 1 gig tower system. I think the Audrey rates number one for Cool Factor(luv that blinking email light). While I am not the most technically adept, I managed to update my Iopener with the IMOD3 and the Mark Turpin case as well as the USB ethernet. I like the Scovery for it's ease of modification (one has a HDD etc, the other is a virgin). It seems that the Scovery is just as
fast for browsing as any of my other pcs. The SpaceWalker has a Win2k, 1GIG celeron, 512mb of ram and a dvd player.
The video is quite satifactory, but it seems to run hot. When I run Setiathome on it the temps go up to 122 with the
case and 104 without the case. I have an alpha cooler, but probably need another fan. I put a laptop HDD in it so as
permit better airflow. Anyway, with all this stuff, I need to trade in my 4 port router for an 8 port. My wife thinks I'm nuts, but when I was younger I had a driveway full of 'Cudas and various other Mopars. My fingernails are definately much cleaner now than they used to be.
01-31-2002 11:47:10

New MessageRE:I-Opener compared to Shuttle SV24 (modified 0 times) zyxw
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Hi h2oboxer,
This is a bit odd, I have an SV24 set up very similar to yours, I used the Shuttle provided heatsink and fan (the boxed Intel Celeron heatsink was too big) on a boxed Celeron 1.1Ghz (100Mhz fsb). My room is a toasty 75 degrees (F, all temps F) and the via hardware monitor reports system temperature and cpu temperature as 89 degrees. It's been running for well over a day... WME. Do Celerons vary considerably in power drawn? I've been very happy with the units stability and temperature (it doesn't feel very hot). Your numbers are over 10 degrees (F) warmer than mine, is this just the luck of the draw??
01-31-2002 21:44:52

New MessageRE:I-Opener compared to Shuttle SV24 (modified 0 times) h2oboxer
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Sorry to cause confusion. At idle it runs
about 91F. Just when running Setiathome the
temps go up by 20F.
02-01-2002 09:13:33

New MessageRE:I-Opener compared to Shuttle SV24 (modified 0 times) Zogg
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Hi zyxw,

Sorry for the delay, I got really busy the last few days.

The FIC Sabre 1815 is about 14"D x 12"W x 3.5"H. I have had a real BookPC with the Chips motherboard too, but gave it to my parents. It's about the same size. They come with feet so you can stand it up on the edge, but I have it on a shelf in my computer hutch. The SV24 would have fit, too, but again I wanted more than one PCI slot so I went to the FIC.

I have been thinking about setting up a car computer, and the SV24 would actually make a very nice box to do it with. One small PCI slot for a wireless ethernet adapter is perfect. Still in the planning stages, though.

02-01-2002 11:05:29

New MessageRE:I-Opener compared to Shuttle SV24 (modified 0 times) 02U2
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I believe you can you the 10/100 ethernet port on the SV24 to hook up an ethernet wireless adapter...Save that pci slot for something else...
Or go Usb wireless.

Ethernet

usb

02-01-2002 13:56:21

New MessageRE:I-Opener compared to Shuttle SV24 (modified 0 times) zyxw
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Hi,
Really I think with only 1 PCI slot the only choice if you use it much (the SV24 that is) would be a video card... especially one with DVI...

I'm however unsure if any PCI DVI card supports 1200x1600 which sadly is the resolution of my new LCD.... sigh...

02-01-2002 18:33:00

New MessageRE:I-Opener compared to Shuttle SV24 (modified 0 times) Zogg
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The size of a PCI card that will fit in the SV24 is fairly small. I'm not sure you can get a decent video card to fit in that space, as almost all the higher end cards are larger than a half-height card. That was why I went with the FIC Sabre box, and even then I had to leave the hard drive sort of loose in the case in order to fit the All-in-Wonder card in.

The SV24 is a cool box with lots of uses, but you are going to have to use it's built-in video and use the PCI slot for something else. Unless I'm TOTALLY mistaken, but I don't think so.

02-05-2002 08:46:10

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