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How to make $200,000

New MessageHow to make $200,000 (modified 0 times) Musicman38
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Hey check this out you can make a cool $200,000 for making Linux run on the XBox..

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-941230.html

07-02-2002 20:15:54

New MessageRE:How to make $200,000 (modified 0 times) Miyu2002
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Saw that on a few sites. My think is that it Gates trying to find all of the people trying to crack it so he can get them in one place and fry them.
07-02-2002 21:02:52

New MessageRE:How to make $200,000 (modified 0 times) Linuxguru
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I saw the reward offer, but I still don't get the point. The XBox is basically a Celeron 733 MHz without any expansion capabilities and no VGA out (only TV out) for $199. I've built several systems that are fully expandable, upgradeable and have better specs for much less money. For instance, I have a BookPC with a Celeron 800/128M/3GB/DVD/2 PCI slots that cost south of $100, scavenging parts from older systems. It runs Ogle and Xine to put out full-screen 800x600 SVGA resolution DVD playback, which I run out to a $1300 Viewsonic 1000-lumen DLP projector that puts a 10' diagonal image on the wall across the room (actually, the resolution is only limited by the projector, and the size of the image is only limited by the size of my living room). A $30 3-piece powered speaker set completes the home theatre setup. The image quality is light years ahead of big-screen TV/Projection TV/HDTV, and is largely indistinguishable from a movie theatre, except for the absolute brightness of the image.

The XBox is locked in to the limitations of a 75-year old technology, the TV. It's 100% state-of-the-past. Why waste time and effort on that overpriced, poorly engineered piece of junk? Any average BookPC is far more reliable. There are some that are an order-of-magnitude better, like the FIC Sabre or Samba. Just plonk down the few extra dollars and get one of those.

Getting Linux onto the XBox may be an interesting way to hit back at the dark side, but has little practical value, aside from the satisfaction of the hack.

07-03-2002 03:45:39

New MessageRE:How to make $200,000 (modified 0 times) redwood
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ok Linuxguru,
you Have my attention... :)
I guess I will have to start doing some Reading about this method of viewing...
anybody else interested in discussing this here? my first question.. does the room need to be DARK... cuz, the days are long and lite here in the summer...
if I don't have a Wall free... can you use a pulldown window screen? will that work? projetor screens are expensive...
I know of one site to get some info, perhaps, you have some favorite links? :) Thanks!
07-03-2002 08:16:25

New MessageRE:How to make $200,000 (modified 0 times) 02U2
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Interesting,
I have a older but looks brand new black LCD projector that I found packed in a cardboard box last year during one of my excursions in a corporate dumpster. I'm not sure if it was "accidentally" thrown away or not, I never went back and asked them. Duh.
I did report it to LEO and place a "Found property ad" per state law just to cover my arse. Still have 2 copies of the newspaper with ad for arse cover.

It's SVGA and VERY bright. Came with a wireless rf remote. It connects to a standard Svga video output. Meant to be used with a notebook but can be used on a desktop computer. It could be used in a lit room but the picture is harder to see and looks a heck of a LOT better in a darker room.
The one major drawback is the very noisey cooling fan for the bulb.... I imagine one could fab a loose fitting acoustic cover for it and still allow for cooling airflow.

Looking at the projected picture real close on the wall I can see the picture is made up of small blocks (pixels) and they get bigger the farther back the projecter is placed. But if I myself set back far enough approx. 8' or more everything pretty much blends together.

I use a White painted wall for the screen. One could use a large smooth white sheet of cardboard or project presentaion cardboard (foam core) whiteboard for a screen. Actually a white bedsheet stretched tite against a wall may work!

My only BIG reservation about continously watching movies or playing games using this as a display is once the special high intensity halogen bulb BURNS OUT it cost about $400 bucks for a replacement! OUCH!

07-03-2002 10:15:08

New MessageRE:How to make $200,000 (modified 0 times) 02U2
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>>>>The one major drawback is the very noisey cooling fan for the bulb.... I imagine one could fab a loose fitting acoustic cover for it and still allow for cooling airflow.<<<<

I meant to write, fab a rigid but room for airflow drop over acoustic cover for the 'entire projector' leaving the front open.

07-03-2002 10:25:00

New MessageRE:How to make $200,000 (modified 0 times) 02U2
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Okay, Swinging this thread off course a little more...

Interesting!

http://www.audiovisualizers.com/madlab/lcd_proj.htm

07-03-2002 10:34:47

New MessageRE:How to make $200,000 (modified 0 times) zmoz
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Wow! that looks really cool. Anybody seen those things on ebay that clame to turn your tv into a 100" big screen projector? They are only like $10, but it is reall stupid. I finally bought one just to see what it was...they have you build this weird card board thing in front of your tv, only to get a blurry backwards and upsidedown picture...I have yet to get that far...but that other website looks interesting...
07-03-2002 11:11:11

New MessageRE:How to make $200,000 (modified 0 times) wildwildwes
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Sorry, but I have to declare shenanigans. In my opinion the xbox is an outstanding deal at $200, and would make an excellent living room game/internet/video/music system. If you want to play back dvds on an lcd projector, the important part (at least to me) is the projector, not the pc. By the way, interesting link 02U2.

I went to pricewatch and wrote down some prices on parts for a system matching most of the specs of the xbox. If I were actually to build this system, I would probably use different/higher quality parts and order from dealers who have good reputations, but these are the lowest prices I saw for an xbox-ish system.

$46 - celeron 733 -- though technically the xbox cpu has a faster cache
$103 - geforce3 -- the most expensive/attractive part of the system is the 3d
$30 - mb -- the nforce chipset isn't otherwise available for intel, so I chose an inferior 370 motherboard
$11 - ram -- the xbox uses significantly faster 200mhz dual channel 5ns ram, but this isn't do-able with the celeron
$54 - 10 gb hd
$20 - dvd-rom -- i'm not sure how well the dvd in the xbox works with a pc, but this is the cheapest dvd-rom I found
$20 - 5.1 sound card
$6 - network card
--------------------------
$290 generously priced for a weaker system not including a case and power supply and it isn't xbox hacker cool.

I admit the xbox is not as upgradeable as a pc, but the only thing I believe that needs upgrading is the ram. 64 is a little lean. I actually think the tv out is a good thing since it allows you to use the system in the tv room without having to buy anything additional. But anyway, I believe there is a vga adapter for it. It wouldn't do as a main desktop system, but in my opinion it's perfect for what it was designed to do -- be a living room entertainment system.

07-03-2002 12:25:21

New MessageRE:How to make $200,000 (modified 0 times) Linuxguru
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I'll just provide a couple of links now to get people started, and I'll try to answer answer questions in a later posting :

The homepage for the Ogle DVD player for Linux:

http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/groups/dvd/

The homepage for the Xine DVD player for Linux:

http://xine.sourceforge.net/

The homepage for LinuxTV (several projects, including an open-source DVR):

http://www.linuxtv.org/

Between Xine and Ogle, Xine has a cool skin and choices of skins, while Ogle has a plain-vanilla GUI (this could be changing as I write this; lots of new GUI front-ends are being released every day). I found Ogle to be easier to install and configure; Xine required a rebuild from the source rpm for one rpm (libxine0). I still haven't figured how to get to the DVD root/title menu from Xine while the movie is playing; menus work well in Ogle. Finally, Xine has the volume control on the skin; Ogle requires the use of an audio mixer app like aumix or the KDE mixer widget on the toolbar.

Both can co-exist on the same system, so you can try out both. Both are comparable in video as well as sound quality; there are some interlacing artifacts on both occasionally, which are apparently related to the source encoding.

For the video card, I'd recommend staying away from Trident. It helps greatly if you have an Xv extension to XFree86 4.1, so try sticking to NVidia, ATI and Matrox in that order. I have a GeForce 256 classic, but a Riva or GeForce2 should also work well with the accelerated XFree86 4.1 rpms on the NVidia download site.

For sound, I use the OSS driver - this requires me to kill the artsd daemon on KDE the first time I boot, if I want to run Xine.

If somebody has managed to get an IR joystick working as a pointing device under X, please provide a link or hints. It's probably not that difficult, but I haven't had time to investigate it.

There's lots more, but the FAQs, intros and secondary links on the sites I provided should get you started.

07-03-2002 12:57:49

New MessageRE:How to make $200,000 (modified 0 times) Linuxguru
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To wildwildwes: Yes, I'll admit to some pricing shenanigans, since I scavenged parts from older systems, which is well within the capabilities of the folks on this board .

1) You are correct that a GeForce3 needs to be priced in, to compare apples to apples. However, to me, the DVD playback is more important than the gaming, so a Riva/GeForce/GeForce2 is already overkill. A lot of $10 ATI cards would work just as well. Best of all, if you have an i810/i815 or a motherboard with built-in VGA, no additional card is required.

2) A 10 GB hard drive is not required, since this is a Linux system with a smaller image footprint, even with a full install of Mandrake or similar. 3 GB or smaller does fine.

3) I used the built-in stereo sound, so I haven't invested in a 5.1 card, but that's only $20, so no big deal.

4) TV-out is a good thing to have *in addition* to VGA, not as a substitute for it.

5) Of course, the projector is the more important component, both in terms of being the dominant cost component, as well as the limiting factor in specifications. But the point is that you can't use the XBox for DVD playback through a projector - the scan lines and pixelation would be very visible.

6) Upgradability through PCI slots is the key - I would want to add Dolby 5.1, DTS, SPDIF out, etc. at some point in the future. Also, TV tuner cards, DVB, Firewire, etc.

About the VGA adapter for the Xbox - is it something that is stuck inline with the TV-out (which doesn't buy anything) or is it an internal add-in that can generate the full range of resolutions, scan rates, and color depths of a typical PC VGA card?

07-03-2002 13:25:29

New MessageRE:How to make $200,000 (modified 0 times) wildwildwes
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Yeah, I mainly think of the xbox as a gaming system, partly because of the nice nvidia graphics, but mostly because I play lots of pc games and rarely watch movies.

Here's a link to a vga adapter:

http://www.lik-sang.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1533&AID=6818256&PID=952086

When I first saw it I assumed it was digital, but now that I've read the description I believe it is probably nothing more than the tv-out in vga form.

Anyway, all I really wanted to say is that $200 is an excellent price for a system as capable as the xbox. It may not be suitable for everyone, but for plenty of people including myself, it would be a great system if it were unlocked.

07-04-2002 11:05:33

New MessageRE:How to make $200,000 (modified 0 times) Linuxguru
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Some answers to previous questions:

1. It helps to have a dark room and a good relecting screen, similar to the kind used for powerpoint presentations. A plain white wall works fine though. A textured finish and an off-white paint, which is what I have, cause further degradation. However, it is still quite viewable, even during the day, with the blinds drawn. A bright projector helps; about 800 lumens is the threshold for acceptable viewing in these conditions.

2. There is a trade-off between brightness and image size (inverse square law). You can get a brighter image with a smaller image size. If you have projector with a zoom lens, this tradeoff still exists, but there is more loss in the lens system (a few % is lost at every air->glass and glass->air transition that the light beam encounters. Sorry, can't do anything about it, even with perfectly clean surfaces, because this is governed by the fundamental laws of optics; specifically, Maxwell's Laws.)

Projector manufacturers try to overcome this by using brighter lamps, which also contributes to a heat problem.

3. A major breakthrough in lamp design occurred in 1998 or thereabouts, with the development of specialized lamps meant specifically for video and data projectors. This is the Osram P-VIP high-pressure mercury-vapor short-arc discharge lamp. Almost all new projectors with lamps in the 100 W to 250 W range (about 95 % of the market) have switched to P-VIP. The remaining are high-power professional and mini-theatre units costing upwards of $50k - $100k, and these still use Xenon arc lamps.

P-VIP has the advantages of small size; a point source (less than 1 mm cubed) of intense white light; long life of typically 2000 hours lamp half-life; and the possibility of introducing dopants in the mercury vapor that compensate for the color transfer characteristics of the intervening glass, mirrors and color-wheel filters in a DLP projector, so that the net result is close to pure white on the screen.

In answer to O2U2's concern about the high cost of the special halogen bulb (most likely metal halide), I would recommend trying to mod the unit to use a P-VIP lamp when the present lamp dies. The P-VIP lamps are no less expensive when bought at retail as direct replacements for specific projectors, around $300-$500. However, the internal bulb and reflector module is manufactured in only a limited number of types; and these can be obtained for about $90 and transplanted into the old lamp unit housing without too much difficulty (this is a racket similar to inkjet cartridges).

The voltages and currents used by the P-VIP lamp (typically 80v at 2A) are likely to be very different from a tungsten metal halide lamp (typically 12v at 10A), and the drive circuits and protection circuits will have to be modified. It's worth investigating, though; the 2000-hour half-life is a big advantage of P-VIP lamps.

4. IMHO, DLPs are better than TFT LCD projectors for a few reasons: they're more uniform in brightness, end-to-end; their contrast is higher; and they have less-stringent cooling requirements, so they can be used with brighter lamps for longer durations with reduced heat duress.

5. The homebrew LCD projectors, while interesting projects, will probably not be comparable in peformance to typical off-the-shelf units, primarily because of the engineering issues connected to the lamp, cooling and optics. The brightness of the the homebrew units is likely to be low, of the order of 200~400 lumens or less, which is probably acceptable at night.

07-07-2002 12:48:34

New MessageRE:How to make $200,000 (modified 0 times) dozens
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Linuxguru - Where did you find a BookPC for less the $100 ? The cheapest the manufacturer sells them for is $350
07-09-2002 14:47:20

New MessageRE:How to make $200,000 (modified 0 times) Linuxguru
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I got a barebones Microstar MS-6204 Micro NLX Slot-1 system, in carton with all cables, manuals and CDs for $30 at a swap-meet. The seller had about a dozen similar units, apparently all warranty returns that were disposed off by Microstar. A quick check on the Microstar website revealed that the units were Coppermine-capable (upto 1100 MHz) with a BIOS upgrade.

I added a $14.95 slimline DVD drive, a $4.95 floppy drive, a $10 3 GB hard drive, $9 128 MB PC-100 DIMM (bought 10/2001 for another system), and a $30 Celeron 800 CPU with slotket, to keep the total just below $100. (The CPU was scavenged from a friend's machine which was upgraded to a P-III, but I could have saved a few dollars by simply using the Celeron 667 from the Fry's closeout at $19.95 and a generic $6.95 slotket.)

07-10-2002 01:08:04

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