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New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2?
Concerning a camera that doesn't seem to fall into either category being sold at Ritz

New MessageNew type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) vthornheart
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Hello all! Okay, so I bought what appeared to be an old style blue Dakota camera from the Ritz store at Arden Fair in Sacramento (I noticed someone else on the board's from Sacramento - a quick shout out to you! =) ). Anyways, the camera appears to be the old school one except for a few things that I only noticed upon opening it:

-= Things that make it different from the old school blue =-
* the pin connectors for the USB connection are on the opposite side (the side closest to the lens)
* The on/off button is a pushbutton, not a switch.
* There is no chrome where the two colors change over (blue to silver), nor is there any chrome around the lens.
* The section where the batteries are held "bulges out" from the front (like the PV2 version does).

Now, it's not exactly a PV2 either...

-= Things that make it different from the PV2 blue =-

* The color scheme is identical to the old school (majority is blue, blue on outside with the "inside" color being silver (that is, the color immediately surrounding the lens and the front). On the PV2, the colors are supposed to be exactly the opposite.
* There is no "PV2" written anywhere on the camera or the packaging.
* There is still no chrome around the lens (in both the original and the PV2, there is a chrome or metal looking border around the outside lens)

Anyways, has anyone else seen these "not quite fitting into either category" cameras yet? Does anyone know if they're using the old school setup or if they're PV2? I'm going to find out myself as soon as I can snag a free USB cable from back home... but I figured I'd post this to see if anyone had the quick answer. =)


-Vendal Thornheart
07-28-2004 00:30:04

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) koikoi
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I just got one of these, but the simple solder-on-a-USB-cable approach isn't working for me. At least part of it is because this one reports itself as Product ID=9344, Vendor ID=1000 (as opposed to the expected Product ID=65535, Vendor ID=1276). I'll try to recompile with these IDs and see if I get anything.

The inside is simpler than the old school version. No daughterboards, and there's some sort of solenoid controlling a shutter (normally open). There's very little room left inside the case, certainly not enough to add in a USB port.

Note I haven't seen the inside of a PV2 blue, so for all I know this is what a PV2 looks like inside.

08-24-2004 16:56:01

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) koikoi
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Simply changing the PID/VID fails. Attempting to list the files results in a bunch of errors, "err=e000404f".
Sigh.
08-24-2004 21:54:22

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) koikoi
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I started poking around a little more, here's the chips I saw:
Back:
U4: Fairchild, P37S0 LVX32: low-voltage quad 2-input or gate
U8: Holtek, HT1621 A320U0064-2: LCD controller

Front:
U1: EndPoints, EP402C MGM2G0000 200334: main processor
U3: 0406 3-1 MT 48LC4M16A2 TG -75F: SDRAM
U2: K9F6408UOC TGG125EE KOREA: Flash
U11: AIC1631ACS: 2-cell, 500mA, step-up DC/DC converter

Googling for EndPoints yields some info. They produce the SE401, SE402, and EP800, which are all-in-one JPEG compression/CMOS sensor control/USB/other misc. stuff.
Some links:
http://members.brabant.chello.nl/%7Ej.vreeken/se401/ Linux drivers for SE401, SE402, EP800 based cameras
http://www.endpoints.com.tw/Products/products.html Manufacturer's website, has block diagrams and features of the SE401, SE402, and EP800
http://www.endpoints.com.tw/products.htm Manufacturer's website, says EP402 but links to SE402. Perhaps EP402 was an old name?

08-25-2004 14:34:35

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) mrgreen
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Well, I am new to all of this stuff, but I do know that the Endpoints SE401 (and I thing 402) are sensors used in old Kensington webcams. There is an open source driver for those cams for Linux, which is part of the standard kernel modules as of the later 2.4.X. It seems to be broken in 2.6.X up until somewhere around 2.6.6 or .8, though I don't think that was anything to do with the driver, and rather something about the USB host system.

Anyways, if they are using some variant of the SE401 chip looking at those drivers and talking to thier developers may be helpful.

Rob

09-02-2004 11:26:00

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) strae
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FWIW - description sounds EXACTLY like the insides of the CVS which I have and which seems to match all descriptions of the insides of the PV2 (which I dont have but I have seen the online teardown and read numerous descriptions)

try holding shutter-timer-delete while powering on and report back the numbers you get also try shutter-timer then power on - not sure what these are, but was wondering if we get similar results.

09-02-2004 11:47:36

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) koikoi
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strae - Holding down the shutter results in 6A, then 31, then the normal screen. Other combinations that include shutter have the same result, combinations not involving shutter don't do anything unusual. Where are there pictures of a blue PV2 (ie non-color-LCD)? I do have a red CVS PV2 and noticed the similarities, but I haven't seen disassembly pics of a blue PV2, and don't really want to buy one. Remember, as vthornheart noted, one of the confusing things about this model is that it's not marked as a PV2.

mrgreen - I thought about trying to contact EndPoints, but I haven't investigated nearly enough to justify bothering them yet. My current plan is to take the commands from the latest epcam code, put them into the pureread code, and see what happens. Unfortunately, I've never tried anything like this before, so it might take a while to figure out what I'm doing.

09-03-2004 23:25:39

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) koikoi
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I looked at the epcam code and picked out the commands I understood. Unfortunately, after staring at the epcam code, I'm stuck - it only seems to have support for webcam mode, not normal camera mode. Either that, or I missed it, which I think is more likely. I'll try contacting the author when I'm more coherent. In the meantime, can someone more experienced take a look and perhaps point out how you're supposed to be able to use epcam with cameras?

==

Warning: Long results section ahead. It's not at all interesting, but at least it makes sense. As I've not done anything like this before, simply getting consistent data makes me feel good.

Getting the camera info (mentioned in epcam_init) yields:
16 00 02 04 6a 31 00 05 00 04 03 00 00 00 01 00 01 00 03 02 08 00
This is a series of two-byte values, LSByte first.
value-by-value, referenced against user output in epcam, it turns into:
16 00: size of data (0x16 = 22 bytes)
02 04: camera ID (0x204 = 1026)
6a 31: revision (0x316a = 12650) - same as what you get when you hold shutter during power on
00 05: max width (0x500 = 1280)
00 04: max height (0x400 = 1024)
03 00: zoomcaps - anyone know what this refers to?
00 00: ISPcaps - anyone know what this refers to?
01 00: number of formats supported
01 00: 1st format: bayer
03 02: unused?
08 00: unused?

The bios version (mentioned in epcam_init) is 0x20

Getting the image info (mentioned in epcam_send_pict and epcam_recv_pict) yields:
20 00 82 06 00 00 00 01 90 01 00 00 48 00 00 7d
c4 09 82 06 00 00 00 00 96 00 00 00 82 06 0a 00
The only value mentioned in epcam is the second one, which is related to brightness. The first value is the size of data. Beyond this, I don't know what any of it means. I've taken 1 picture. When the camera was hooked up, it was face-down of the table.

Getting the capture info (mentioned in epcam_send_size) yields:
10 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 05 00 04 00 00 00 00
value-by-value, referenced against user output in epcam, it turns into:
10 00: size of data (0x10 = 16 bytes)
01 00: mode (bayer?)
00 00: x start - anyone know what this refers to?
00 00: y start - anyone know what this refers to?
00 05: width (0x500 = 1280)
00 04: height (0x400 = 1024)
00 00: frame rate
00 00: zoom
In epcam, x start and y start are set to be width/4 and height/4 (why, I'm not sure) and the modified capture info is then written back to the camera. I think.

This is as far as I got before realizing there only seemed to be references to streaming frames (ie webcam), not selecting and reading/streaming an image (camera). While a webcam would be useful, I'd probably have to do isochronous transfer without handy existing code to steal^H^H^H^H^Hlearn from. And I really want a camera, anyway.

09-05-2004 00:52:52

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) koikoi
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Well, still no reply from Jeroen Vreeken. I tried e-mailing EndPoints, but their contact address (mgt@endpoints.com.tw) generated an auto-response consisting of some chinese, followed by (what I assume is a translation):

This is a auto-replay notification mail:
 Due to expiration of service, this mail account will be disabled after Oct
1, 2004.
09-20-2004 15:29:12

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) yukichigai
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I ordered one of these from the Ritz camera in Reno, along with a Red PV2. At first I thought I'd wired up my connector wrong, but after looking at some pictures of the "classic" Dakotas and reading this topic I'm almost certain I have one of the new, "not-PV2" Blues.

I took a few pictures with my aged, super-crappy Polaroid Digital camera, with its amazing 640x480 max resolution. The background is my pimp-style shag bedsheets. Yes, shag. I'm like a 70s pornstar.

Front view

Back view

Bottom view

Side view. (port side) And my hand.

I doubt this is of much help, but hey, at least you have some images now.

12-12-2004 03:37:17

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) dakotamod
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Odd, a Dakota but not a PV2. It looks just like the CVS Blues except for the shape of blue color on front and Dakota Digital on top. As a self appointed moderator (dakotamod), I think I will be obsoleted by CVS which just has "pure digital TECHNOLOGY" on front bottom (interesting use of Capitalization by SMaL and pure digital TECHNOLOGY). Try a 3 finger salute (while holding down delete and top shutter, press power on). My CVS blue flashes 65, 20, 28, 28, 00.
12-12-2004 05:47:11

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) taytrr
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I just picked up one of each at a Longs in Sacramento. Neither says PV2.

The one without preview has:
Red stickers over a grey body
Label on battery cover = Pure Digital Technologies, Inc. Digital Camera Model 400
Identifies as DCA-0028
Info on bootup: EA 50 44 12 69 08
Does anyone know what this info means? (same length as ID?)
Somehow I got this once but I haven't been able to reproduce it: 65 20 28 28 17
I'm guessing it means 6520 firmware, TypeID 28, CMP TypeID 28, Realm 17

The one with preview has
Blue stickers over a grey body
Label on battery cover = Pure Digital Technologies, Inc. Digital Camera Model 410
Identifies as DCA-0027
Info on bootup: Firmware 6520
Hardware 06
TypeID 30
CMP Type ID 30
ID DD 30 44 00 xx xx (just in case it matters)
Realm ID 17

I can post some images of them if it would be helpful.

12-12-2004 06:47:30

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) taytrr
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Ok, I figured out how to get both displays (on model 400 without preview):
Shutter-Delete-On = 65 20 28 28 17
Shutter-SelfTimer-On = EA 50 44 12 69 08

After a mistake with my connector that was shorting 5 to 9 (not connecting either) I have new readings:
Shutter-Delete-On = 65 20 28 28 00
Shutter-SelfTimer-On = _A __ __ A_ __ __

12-12-2004 07:29:05

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) scribble
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My two ritz blues came up

delete, shutter on--65 10 28 28 o
timmer, shutter on -- _A __ __ A_ __ __

For the hystorical record my Walgrees came up

delete, shutter on-- display screen UF 0 49
timmer, shutter on -- display screen

12-12-2004 10:42:54

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) dakotamod
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You both have reset cameras! The _A__A__ is probably just LaMSSMaL, only displaying lower case.
12-12-2004 11:16:46

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) yukichigai
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Delete-shutter-on: 65 10 28 28 16
Timer-shutter-on: EA 20 43 20 94 13

Plugging it in doesn't work. libusb.inf doesn't seem to contain the right info to install the camera, and when it's plugged into a USB port it won't respond to either three-fingered button combo. I guess that's normal. But... yeah. Huzzah.

12-12-2004 19:01:54

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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anyone make any progress? does this have a code / model name we're referring to it as?
02-11-2005 10:09:46

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) brite_eye
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Note that CVS and Longs are not PV2 Dakotas - which are only available at Ritz/Wolf. If you have a drugstore Pure Digital 400 or 410 then you should ignore this thread - they are slightly updated versions of new PV2s and share the same SMaL imagers and have been successfully hacked using PV2 methods. There appears to have been a release of something inbetween old blue and new blue which I think mike has posted in another thread (a 300 maybe).
02-11-2005 18:04:40

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) xt3rm
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I have one of these cameras too.

I've made a cable according to the instructions on the links off cexx.org/dakota. I would imagine it has the same pinout as the normal dakota.

However, when I connect the cable, I don't get the "PC" display on the lcd. Am I meant to get that straight away or only once the driver has recognised it? SO is it the cable thats the problem or the driver, which I can't seem to get to install.

When I plug it in, win xp recoginses it as "Digital Camera".

02-15-2005 18:41:29

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) Steveo
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Your connections must be bad! The Old blue will display "PC" when it has a 5 volt supply and a good ground!
02-18-2005 20:33:50

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) almazlamaz
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mine new slim dakota digital does not show PC on lcd either,
and I cannot install it on win xp he using old dakota digital drivers :(
04-14-2005 18:10:13

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) Raceit
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Has anyone ever found/created a driver for this for XP? I picked up one of these camera's and have the exact same problems as listed above.

Thanks!

-Steve

04-29-2005 16:44:21

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) alfa66
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Just bought one yesterday, no luck with sucr (0.5, and libusb 1.8 downloaded from the official site....).
Does anybody know what tools do we need to hack this version ?
Thanks
alfa66
08-07-2005 23:28:31

New MessageRE:New type of Dakota, or is it a PV2? (modified 0 times) radarman
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Time to head over to camerahacking.com ( http://camerahacks.10.forumer.com/ ). You very likely have a newer PD camera (6520 or 6550). Even Ritz is carrying the newer cameras now.

The unlock method is well documented, and you can even use drivers from a FlatFoto2 to download directly using TWAIN - all in all, a much better deal than the original Dakotas. Unfortunately, SUCR no longer works on these cameras. A newer tool, pv2tool, however, does everything SUCR did, and more.

08-08-2005 11:23:54

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