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Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures?

New MessageDakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) ScoutGuy
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No, I'm not wondering how many pictures can the camera hold at one time. That's fixed in the firmware at 27.

I'm wondering about the numbering of images. I've notice that the camera increments the filename each time that a picture is taken. The numeric part of the name is four digits, which give us up 9,999. Any idea what happens after 9,999?

Right now my son is shooting between 50 and 75 pictures a day. At 50 pictures a day, that's 200 days.

So in about six months will I have to buy a new camera or will the counter go back to zero?

03-09-2004 16:28:28

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) scribble
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Come back and tell us. At the rate your son is going he's is or soon will be the world record holder for the number of image taken with a hacked dakota.

And if the camera does hang up, think about what you would have shelled out if there had been film in the camera.

03-09-2004 17:59:04

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) ScoutGuy
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This could turn into a cottage industry. One of my son's buddys wants me to rebuild a Dakota camera for him.
03-10-2004 14:59:05

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) gorn
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It's true it's four digits, however I don't know why:

New file is in location /DSC_0252.JPG on the camera
New file is in location /DSC_0253.JPG on the camera
New file is in location /DSC_0254.JPG on the camera
New file is in location /DSC_0001.JPG on the camera
New file is in location /DSC_0002.JPG on the camera

So once it hits the limit it just comes right back to 1.


-gorn
03-15-2004 22:44:10

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) Accelleron
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for what it's worth, the 27-picture "hard-coding" can quite easily be broken. Simply have sucr take 27 pictures on an empty cam, unplug, and it displays 35. Exhaust that, and it goes to 99. not all the images are retained, but at least superficially the camera is fooled. Maybe this will be slightly useful.
06-16-2004 20:20:02

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) DrDootz
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I found a site that has a way to change the 25 picture limit to what ever you want. It is at http://www.balerdi.com.ar/dakota/ . He has a utility that can change the limit. You must remember the camera only has 16Meg of storage. I changed a bunch to a limit of 50 and they work great. What I like is that the LCD still displays the correct info to # of remaining PIX. I could only get it to work on Win98 in a DOS window. Had problems in XP with command line changes.

Enjoy!

DrDootz

07-04-2004 14:58:29

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) DrDootz
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I found a site that has a way to change the 25 picture limit to what ever you want. It is at http://www.balerdi.com.ar/dakota/ . He has a utility that can change the limit. You must remember the camera only has 16Meg of storage. I changed a bunch to a limit of 50 and they work great. What I like is that the LCD still displays the correct info to # of remaining PIX. I could only get it to work on Win98 in a DOS window. Had problems in XP with command line changes.

Enjoy!

DrDootz

07-04-2004 14:58:59

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) Steveo
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Thanks Doc.! I needed that!!! I had to read your post 3 times before I seen "DOS Window"
07-05-2004 13:13:39

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) Lanchon
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hi! i'm the author of http://www.balerdi.com.ar/dakota/. it's strange that you need windows 98 to run the tools, as i've developed them under XP myself. i guess there might be a problem with liusb-win32, but that should affect sucr too. could you describe your problems for me?

to the question as to whether the camera will hang after too many pictures are taken, the short answer is no. a longer answer is that the firmware writes configuration data to a picture flash page after every photo taken. and no wear leveling is used (the same page is always written), so eventually the flash will fail. this should not happen before 100.000 cycles, however the firmware is very badly written and this page is unnecesarily programmed many times after each shot (not sure how many). so i guess you could say the camera should endure at least 10.000 shots, maybe even 30.000.

regarding the photo numbering scheme, the camera remembers the number of the last taken photo (outside of the FAT, in the config area) and increments it for the next. deleted shots do not decrement the counter. unfortunately the photo number wraps back from 254 to 1. also, when you turn off the camera and then turn it back on, there is a bolted on check that does this: if the current photo num is less than the number of stored photos, it is set to be equal. this is a pittifull attempt to survive a config data loss without loosing the shots previously taken. this explains the common disorder you find in the shot numbers. furthermore, the camera CAN take two or more photos and assign them the same number (just think of the simple case of repeatedly shooting and deleting). this has happen sometimes to me, UNINTENTEDLY. in this case all photos are listed in the TOC, but only the first can be downloaded, so the shots are lost (unless you dump the flash).

fortunately i've posted a patched firmware in my page that always stores photos starting at number 1 and does not wrap around, so more than 256 can be taken safely. deletions decrement the counter (never any holes). sourvives config loss as well as the original firmware (but does not screw count). also the number of shots taken, and not the number remaining is displayed, so no more weird displays.

regards -R

07-09-2004 02:08:10

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) DrDootz
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Hey Rodrigo,

First off, I applaud you for your work you have done. I used your Dakota Config Tool to change my cameras to 50 pictures and they work great.

As Bones from Star Trek would say “I’m a doctor, not a computer guy”. I’m not too good running DOS programs under XP. My SUCR works fine but when I run your stuff from the command prompt it gives me an error that “more than one camera found”. I have tried many things and still get the same error. When I ran it on another machine with Win98 in a DOS window it ran with no problem. I must admit that I installed the version of liusb-win32 that came with your package on the Win98 machine and used the existing working version on the XP machine. I thing the Win98 version is .18 and the XP version is .178. They both work fine with SUCR and didn’t want to mess with them.

Thanks again for your excellent work and utilities.

Take Care,

Dr. Dootz

07-09-2004 06:58:05

New MessageRE:Upgrading the firmware on blue (modified 0 times) NarShadda
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Rodrigo,
I picked up one of the blues a few days ago and just got around to making the cable last night. I played with your config tool and was very interested in your firmware hack. Unfortunately, the camera I got had firmware version 1.38.3.0. I dumped the firmware so I would have a backup in case I ran into any problems. Before I ever touched your tools, I had already run SUCR, dumped a couple of test pictures from the camera, and cleared the memory. When I ran dakotaconfig -s, I noticed that the picture count was set to 68 which I thought was odd. Then I ran dakotaconfig -d and got an error. Oddly enough, dakotaconfig -limit 99 worked fine. Here is the output from dakotaconfig -b on my 1.38.3.0 firmware:

Dakota Digital Camera Configuration Tool
========================================
Version 15-JUN-2004
Copyright (C) 2004, Rodrigo Balerdi
http://www.balerdi.com.ar/dakota

downloading static configuration data
downloading configuration data again
checking download consistency
checking configuration signature

extended serial number: BAA037500003
tag: FF FF FF FF
picture count limit: 68
next picture number: 1
delete available: no
camera lock: disabled
thirties interface: enabled

downloading dynamic configuration data
downloading configuration data again
checking download consistency
checking configuration signature
ERROR: configuration signature not found

Today I went back and picked up a second camera. Fortunately this one has 1.42.6.0. I ran dakotaconfig -b on this one and noticed that the static info showed 25 shots as I was expecting and the dynamic info actually showed up. (although I get a message during the dynamic dump that dakotatools.ex.exe has caused an error and needs to be closed) Here is the dakotaconfig -b on the 1.42.6.0:

Dakota Digital Camera Configuration Tool
========================================
Version 15-JUN-2004
Copyright (C) 2004, Rodrigo Balerdi
http://www.balerdi.com.ar/dakota

downloading static configuration data
downloading configuration data again
checking download consistency
checking configuration signature

extended serial number: BAA037500003
tag: FF FF FF FF
picture count limit: 25
next picture number: 1
delete available: no
camera lock: disabled
thirties interface: enabled

downloading dynamic configuration data
downloading configuration data again
checking download consistency
checking configuration signature

extended serial number: BA1042023696
tag: 00 00 00 00
picture count limit: 99
next picture number: 26
delete available: no
camera lock: disabled

As you can see, I increased the limit to 99, but the dynamic data is showing up. I patched this new one with your firmware and it works fine. I will probably also up the limit since it counts up instead of down.

I am curious as to why the older firmware doesn't show the dynamic config data. Any ideas?

I figured I would try upgrading the firmware on the older camera to see if it would work. The firmware upgrade ran fine, but when I tried to turn on the camera, it displayed a blinking "Er" on the LCD. Is the serial number perhaps encoded in the firmware to prevent copying from one camera to another?

Anyway, I flashed the original firmware back to the older camera and it is functioning perfectly again.

Any ideas on why the firmware upgrade might not have worked? If you would like to look at the older firmware, I could let you see it.

Thanks for your hard work, and I'm sure I'll enjoy the new camera with your newer firmware.

NarShadda

07-10-2004 14:33:59

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) Lanchon
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hi DrDootz!

thanks a lot! i've got one similar report today, but not enough debugging info. i thought it was either the camera firmware version or the libusb-win32 version. but your post now kinda points to libusb-win32. thanks for the info. it would help if you could tell me your firmware version, but if you have to get to another windows box to do it, don't bother, i guess somebody else will... :)

regards,
-R

07-12-2004 04:31:39

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) Lanchon
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hi NarShadda!

thanks for the info! i'll try to answer some of your questions.

> When I ran dakotaconfig -s, I noticed that the picture count was set to 68 which I thought was odd.

the static area is used as a template to regenerate the dyn area in case the dyn area gets corrupted, and who knows for what else. however some fields are hardcoded in the firmware and overwritten during regeneration. one such field is the photo limit, so the -s number is meaningless (or means something else).

> Then I ran dakotaconfig -d and got an error.
> I am curious as to why the older firmware doesn't show the dynamic config data. Any ideas?

yeap, it seems your older version of the firmware maintains a simpler configuration. your firmware has a config signature of 0100: AA while mine has 0100: AA 55. mine seems to have some code to understand older configs, but i haven't deeped into it. i'm just becoming aware of these diferences by postings like yours and i will update the tools as soon as i can make something out of these few reports. meanwhile you can just comment the signature check.

> Oddly enough, dakotaconfig -limit 99 worked fine.

it should, as there's

07-12-2004 05:26:12

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) Lanchon
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hi NarShadda!

thanks for the info! i'll try to answer some of your questions.

> When I ran dakotaconfig -s, I noticed that the picture count was set to 68 which I thought was odd.

the static area is used as a template to regenerate the dyn area in case the dyn area gets corrupted, and who knows for what else. however some fields are hardcoded in the firmware and overwritten during regeneration. one such field is the photo limit, so the -s number is meaningless (or means something else).

> Then I ran dakotaconfig -d and got an error.
> I am curious as to why the older firmware doesn't show the dynamic config data. Any ideas?

yeap, it seems your older version of the firmware maintains a simpler configuration. your firmware has a config signature of 0100: AA while mine has 0100: AA 55. mine seems to have some code to understand older configs, but i haven't deeped into it. i'm just becoming aware of these diferences by postings like yours and i will update the tools as soon as i can make something out of these few reports. meanwhile you can just comment the signature check.

> Oddly enough, dakotaconfig -limit 99 worked fine.

it should, as there's a camera command for setting the limit. it's just that some of these tools are overly picky. i rather have them fail than act unexpectedly, and i've only tried them on my single camera before posting them.

> I get a message [...] has caused an error and needs to be closed

sorry, my fault!! some problem with STL library strings. it's the first time i use them (i hadn't program in c/c++ for many years). something gets freed before it has to. i'll look into it.

> I figured I would try upgrading the firmware on the older camera to see if it would work. The firmware upgrade ran fine, but when I tried to turn on the camera, it displayed a blinking "Er" on the LCD. [...] Anyway, I flashed the original firmware back to the older camera and it is functioning perfectly again.

hahaha!!! that was very brave of you! glad to hear your camera survived :)

> Is the serial number perhaps encoded in the firmware to prevent copying from one camera to another?

no, the serial is in the dyn config area, and it can be updated using request 0x58 index 0. besides, that would show in the md5 hashes...

> Any ideas on why the firmware upgrade might not have worked?

yes, with the little info i have till now it seems cameras with these two firmware versions have:
-the same static config data
-slightly different sunplus config data
-different dynamic config data

the most worrying differences are in the dyn config, but the dyn config will be regenerated if corrupted (at least that's what i understood by looking at the firmware). the sunplus area has mostly chipset configuration, but nothing that would cause the 8051 core to hang and not be able to reverse the firmware change if some problem should arise i guess.

i'd say the new firmware didn't like the old environment and refuses to run. static config data can be updated using request 0x10 index 1, and sunplus config data using request 0x10 index 2. trouble is, how much of this data is firmware dependant, and how much depends on, say, the sunplus chip version? on top of this, i don't have an old camera to investigate.

> If you would like to look at the older firmware, I could let you see it.

that'd be handy... but wouldn't it be illegal??? ;)

i'll be posting the info i get in my page, but i got a lot to post and little time.

thanks a lot NarShadda, see ya!

07-12-2004 05:31:07

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) scribble
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I ran dakotaconfig -limit on my camera this weekend. The first time the software said the limit had been set but the camera would still only take 25 pictures. The second time I ran sucr and took over 25 pictures before disconnecting the camera. This time the camera accepted a limit of 45 pictures. Don't know what happened, weither I disconected the camera too soon the first time or weither there is something magic about using sucr with my version of the firmware.

I picked a limit of 45 pictures after taking a randon series of 25 picture and seeing how much memory they took--little bit over 8megs so 45 pictures seemed about right to leave myself some headroom. Then I a took a set of pretty much identical pictures of a patterned couch that had created the largest jpg--approximately .7 megs. I expected to get about 22 pictures before I filled the memory but to my surprise I got 35 before the camera count began cycling between 9 and 10 images. When I download the images I found that the first 6 to 8 images were about .7 megs in size. Then all the rest were between .3 and .4 megs. It appears that at some point the firmware took a look at how much memory was remaining and decided to up the jpeg compression.

Obviously it would be nice if there was some way of setting the amount of compression, so you could have a 'high' resolution and a low resolution setting.

One other thing, I let my 6 year old niece take one of my disposables off to her last day in kindergarden. She came back with 3 or 4 surprisingly good pictures. These disposibles make great kid cameras.

scribble

07-12-2004 07:44:34

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) Lanchon
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hi!

> I ran dakotaconfig -limit on my camera this weekend. The first time the software said the limit had been set but the camera would still only take 25 pictures.

maybe the cable was loose? the camera should beep when the limit is programmed. there are no preconditions to program the limit, not even the contents of the camera matter. no other reports like yours. if you are able to reproduce, tell me about it.

> It appears that at some point the firmware took a look at how much memory was remaining and decided to up the jpeg compression.

very interesting observation!!! if it's true the the pic limit may be involved in the quality setting... promising!!!

what version of the firmware do you have?

bye!

07-12-2004 17:23:42

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) scribble
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I loaned the camera to a friend for a few days. When she gives it back to me, I check the software version.

scribble

07-12-2004 19:31:21

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) Lanchon
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new info and tools in my dakota page, enjoy!

http://www.balerdi.com.ar/dakota
07-28-2004 03:04:51

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) murtucky
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alright here is my question,

Im a noob, need help...what exactly am i doing with the dakota tools???
I have two cameras, hotsync cable enabled...
Have used sucr, but don't understand what my options under ADVANCED are really doing.
I have googled/reviewed every site with info and I am at a total loss.
Also, dakotatools, i click on the exe's and they just flash for a split second and disapear. (Win2000)
Cameras are connected, nothing happens. I tried opening the bin/exes under the run command and ms-dos...but the same thing happens!
This is just a personal curiosity project for me, and i am stuck.
Any help would be a big help...thanks.

08-18-2004 01:50:43

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) Hondaman900
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Lanchon, where can I get a copy of the original firmware? I was getting an "Er" message after changing the picture limit, first to 50, and then to 99, and then back to 24. I was hoping that I could do the firmware mod and overwrite the error, to no avail. I'm thinking I corrupted my firmware. Can anyone provide a copy of the original firmware? Mine is 1.42.6.0. The firmware update process went well but no change to the Er status, but then I was downloading existing firmware and XOR-ing it. Most likely just retained the errors. Incidentally, when I do Dakotaconfig -s or -b, I get an error "configuration signature not found". Also, works fine attached to PC, just not detached as a camera.

Any help is MOST appreciated.

Stephen

09-06-2004 18:03:13

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) strae
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I have original fw - I believe same version but will double check before sending.

Of course, I am onlyt sending it knowing you already have a legal copy, it's just corrupt and I am helping you recover it :)

09-07-2004 19:32:39

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) strae
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so if you need the firmware, let me know where to send
09-09-2004 12:15:22

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) Hondaman900
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Many thanks, and yes, I can confirm I do have an original blue Dakota camera. You can see pictures I posted before of my USB connection made from an old CD-ROM deive connector at http://www.mediaq.net/dakota/cable.jpg and http://www.mediaq.net/dakota/connector.jpg

Please e-mail the firmware dump to stephen@mediaq.net. I much appreciate the help. I'll post back here if uploading this corrects the "Er" problem.

Strephen

09-12-2004 14:59:09

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) Hondaman900
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Hey Strae, did you manage to e-mail that? I'm wondering if my spam filters didn't kill your e-mail.

Thanks,

Stephen

09-14-2004 17:25:20

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) strae
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I will send tonight - I haven't checked in here in a couple of days.
09-15-2004 17:00:37

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) strae
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FWIW:

ON-TOPIC

I just put 83 pics on original dakota blue - counter wont go higher so I guess I found a limit - I am setting the camera's for 75 pics from now - seems a reasonable number.

09-15-2004 22:06:05

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) scribble
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I just put 83 pics on original dakota blue - counter wont go higher so I guess I found a limit - I am setting the camera's for 75 pics from now - seems a reasonable number.

What were you taking picture of? In my original testing I was only able to get 36 pictures of a couch with small repeated patterns, something that wouldn't compress much. I set the limit to 45 pictures and when the girl I lent the camera to came back with 45 vacations pictures,there was just under 14 megs of images.

scribble

09-16-2004 08:28:19

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) strae
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random shots around the house - whatever was in front of me when the flash recharged - I am a slob so my "office" area is pretty much a "random pattern" and most of the pics were of that - I have noticed that the camera seems to make bigger pictures when theres lots of dark colors, but I might be imagining that.

This does make me wonder if we could take a look at the compression settings sometime. I would love to be able to store uncompressed and see how far I can crop before the quality drops off.

Is there a working link to the complete disassembly of the firmware around? I want to see about making some other adjustments; Disabling or increasing the automatic shut-off, disabling the flash, adjusting exposure time, always-enabling the delete last picture function - things like that (as options, maybe additional settings in the dakota tools thingy)

09-17-2004 00:01:26

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) Drmn4ea
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Speaking of file sizes - I bought and used my first Dakota when they were still semi-"new" (e.g. starting last September [camera maybe bought earlier] or so...whenever we were still playing around with gPhoto and reading the FLASH off byte-by-byte. Probably November or so I picked up another, and gave the original to my brother when I moved. After hacking the new(er) one, I notice that the images taken with it seem to have consistently smaller file sizes compared to those taken on the original. The old one seemed to average 400KBytes/image (600KByte or more was not unusual), but the new one seems to be averaging less, maybe 250KByte or so. Unfortunately I can't get the firmware/config info of the old one; I'm told it doesn't work anymore (won't turn on), and I'm not around to fix it.

The firmware version of the 'new' cam is 1.38.3.0 as reported by Rodrigo's dakotainfo program; so I doubt somewhat that the older camera has a newer firmware (so far, as far as I know only 1.38.3.0 and 1.42.6.0 have been seen in the wild). I (probably) don't have the contents of the Config area from the old cam, but I'll poke around what files I have left over from the early Dakota hacking.

Has anyone else noted apparent image-file-size differences between different Dakotas?

09-17-2004 17:13:50

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) mako
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A recent album:
64 pictures
12 MB

largest: 586KB (a pebbled streambed)
smallest: 75KB (sky, sun, freeway, bad contrast)
avg: 192KB

I bought my dakota right after the Slashdot article appeared--I believe it's a 1.42.6.0.

09-17-2004 17:52:37

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) Hondaman900
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Hi Strae,

Did you get a chance to e-mail that 1.42.6.0 firmware dump? Don't mean to be a nag. I'm eager to get my Dakota working again. Your help is much appreciated.

Regards,

Stephen

stephen@mediaq.net

09-20-2004 23:58:41

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) strae
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sent it to you on 9-15???
10-07-2004 08:51:55

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) Hondaman900
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Hi Strae, didn't receive it back on 9/15. Perhaps I missed it or it was filtered by Norton? Would you mind re-sending. I've since bought a second camera but haven't been able to get a break to connect it up, dump the flash, and load it onto the "dead" camera. Since I can't find an identical connector for the 2nd camera it's become too big a deal to set up the second one. Perhaps this holiday weekend I'll get it done.

Thanks for the help, and in advance for resending the flash dump.

Stephen

11-26-2004 16:00:05

New MessageRE:Dakota Digital Camera - how many pictures? (modified 0 times) Hondaman900
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Here's an update.

I did a data dump from the new working camera (1.42.6.0). Used that dump to update the one showing "Err", but no difference that I can see. At this stage I'm guessing that my original camera is toast. It works when connected to the computer (via SUCR), but that's about it. What a shame, as it was terrific until I changed the limit to the number of photos to 99. I wish there was a "factory defaults reset" option :(

If anyone has any bright ideas, I'm all ears.

Stephen

11-26-2004 20:35:58

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