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Intel Corporate
Communication with Intel Coporate.

New MessageIntel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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This thread will serve as a FYI with my communications with Intel. I would suggest that no one else contact them till I get a definitive. I do not want to confuse them at this point.

(I felt this was a risk to contact them directly. Who knows what insane response they could have. Heck, they could even try to sue me for reverse engineering thier product. Who knows!. I tried to leave the group out of it.)

(no entre en contacto con Intel para satisfacer.)

04-04-2003 16:05:48

New Messagedot.station question (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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Greg,

I saw that you were the contact on several DOT.Station articles and releases. Might you be kind enough to answer a few questions.

Thanks,

-Jon

-----------------------------------------
Please read first message in this thread.
-----------------------------------------

04-04-2003 16:07:12

New MessageRE: dot.station question (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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(Greg)

If I can. What are the questions?

04-04-2003 16:08:30

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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I have just recently acquired one of the Spanish model units. The ISP that it was attached to is no longer operational. It appears to be running a version of Linux. I would like to turn this into an actual machine.


I was wondering if someone might be kind enough to offer some advice. I know this unit is no longer in production, that Intel could blow me off, but I'm sure someone in the firm knows something about it. I would appreciate any help you can offer. I'd like to use it. It's a shame it wasn't a hit.

Sincerely,

-Jon

04-04-2003 16:09:05

New MessageRE: dot.station question (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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(Greg)

I’ll ask around and see if I can find you someone who can help. However, my recollection is that the system configuration was locked down and could only be changed by someone with a special key (since the ISP did not want people switching to another service after they had subsidized the cost of the system). Since the system was designed to work only with the ISP service, if you are able to even use the machine, I highly suspect that the ISP re-configured the Dot.Station before putting it back into the market, so no one around here would be sure how to help you out.

04-04-2003 16:11:35

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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I greatly appreciate your efforts. I was hoping I could merely install Windows, but at first glance it seems to be well locked down. I can barely make sense of the welcome / login message, as it is in Spanish. [ I took French in high school and college. :( ]

If there is any information I can provide to help the "research efforts" please let me know.


Again, thank you!!

-Jon

04-04-2003 16:12:11

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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(Greg)

Oh boy. Sounds like you’ve go the original locked-down configuration (how did you come by this system?)

I'll see what can be done. If it's legally kosher we may be able to send you a key.

04-04-2003 16:12:56

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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I found it on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3744&item=3409125505


TigerDirect is selling them too.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?sku=N52-1072%20P


I'd be willing to pay some sort of licensing fee,, if needed. Not too much though. This is just a hobby.


-Jon


(I hope that the above doesn't hurt me more with the legal side. Sometimes less info. is better. :)

If it helps legally, this is a Spanish unit, I could get someone from Spain to make this request to you???)

04-04-2003 16:15:10

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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(Greg)

I've got some of the developers kicking around some ideas. Stay tuned.

[04 Apr 2003 14:27:43 -0800 (PST)]

04-04-2003 16:16:19

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) bloinkster
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Wow, you're doing a great job with this project. Hopefully its as easy as entering a key.
04-04-2003 16:35:34

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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Thanks! Never heard from them. Guess I'll have to wait till Monday or Tuesday. I hope this guy is honest about trying to help out. Good to know there's "a key", but not sure how far that will get us.
04-04-2003 17:44:25

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) wfg97079
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Any more contact from them?
04-07-2003 11:46:32

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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Nope. I've been really tempted to call the guy. I can't decide if that's too forward, and aggressive.

My "approach" was to not be too aggressive in the pursuit of information. I figured if I played it mellow, with whimsical air about myself, it might not raise too many flags and the might just want to help a normal Joe like me out. I could easily see a big corporation like Intel telling me to bugger off since there's no REAL reason to help me out.

PS --
The above communication occurred over several days, and my posting of the dialogue was only after there was some real information to share. I guess I should have waited for his reply, but I wanted it known what I was up to in case someone else was thinking of doing the same thing.

04-07-2003 12:25:20

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) wfg97079
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Damn you Intel Corporate, we want answers :)
04-09-2003 06:57:10

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) keith721
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i've put in a request for information to Lonny Paul (AudreyLover on this BBS) to see if he has or can obtain any information for us. i'll keep everyone updated if/when he replies. my dot.station is scheduled to arrive Friday afternoon, but my weekend is pretty well booked, so i probably won't be opening it up until next week

keith721

04-09-2003 10:58:10

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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Just wondering, what connections does Lonny have? What's his background?
04-09-2003 14:23:31

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) Randomluck
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Lonny works for Tiger Direct in some capacity. He wanders in here every so often to gauge the response to a possible deal that TD can get. If it's a good one then he'll give us a shot at them after they get some..
04-09-2003 15:02:15

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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Well, I did end up hearing back from Greg and he asked where I got the unit.

I decided that this was the point in time that the conversion went from email to voice. After several attempts to get him on the phone, I got has as I was about to get on the metro.

----

Back when I was first thinking of contacting Intel I decided that there were 3 possible outcomes:

1.) They tell me to get lost, can't help, sorry.
2.) They'd label me a hacker, and threaten to ruin me with a lawsuit unless I shipped them the unit back to be destroyed, since this was Spanish.
3.) They helped.

Well, hind-sight is about 20-20 on this one. I shouldn't have called. I should have shut the heck up!!!


----

Greg is a cool guy about it, but did start going into the how did I get it. Turns out that Intel, like many companies, made financial arrangements with an ISP (in Spain) to carry the units. The number of units was "rather substantial" or something like (About 250,000 from what I have read on the net). Greg said that the agreement with CompanyX (can't remember the name), that since the dot was a not a success, they would be re-flashed, and made into viable machines that could have any OS installed on them.

Greg explained that there's a USB dongle that would "allow" you to re-flash the bios. The jumpers may or may not need to be adjusted or removed. Not sure the details. Also, in the discussion, the issue of the modem never being tested by whatever standards organization, UL?, here in the US came up. "Intel", it seems, had some concerns about possible violation of US laws, as they were never intended to be sold here.

He mentioned shortly into the conversions that they had some concerns about the units, since they were never supposed to be in the US in the original form, (Spanish). Apparently, the TigerDirect setup IS acceptable, our, is a bit of a problem. They are worried about a possible influx of people contacting Intel, ("since its got their name all over it"), and asking for support, and help. I assured him I'm probably the exception to the rule, not the standard. But, bottom line, they were making calls to CompanyX, and beyond.

I immediately got VERY worried about bOB's safety. He's been swell, cool, and flexible. He's just a salesman, not a ringleader. I don't think he intended to EVER do anything wrong. He's probably just selling something that ended up in his hands. I have to admit I wonder how the heck they ended up in Maine. Maybe these units never even made it to Spain??

Greg assured me that he would be talking to CompanyX to see where the breakdown. Since the lock-down machines should have been re-flashed and repurposed. "We won't waste the companies resources to go after a small individual", but rather talk to CompanyX since that is in clear "violation of our agreement".

Other interesting points in the conversation was when he talked about the design of the machine. They were designed to be "hacker proof". The bios protection was the ultimate step to ensure this. The bootloader was designed to prevent anyone from pulling an i-opener. He even referred to THIS BBS, by talking about "a bunch of people who got a machine that was supposed to be ISP subsidized, for $200, and turned them into a working machine by adding a surplus harddrive." Intel wanted to avoid this marketing/financial disaster.


---------------------
Morale of the story

I'm a pain in the ass, troublemaker. See, this is what happens to people who go too far. I went too far and now Intel is possibly out on the hunt. Greg seems straight to me, but who knows. I hope bOB doesn't get messed over, and that he can continue to sell the units to anyone.

----------------------
Next Steps

Greg said that the engineers have the dongle, and they COULD send it to me, but at the same time they're surprised that original units are floating around. They need to make a decision, and the next, and most likely the last email will either be, either thanks for playing can't help, or what's your address, a dongle is in the mail.

----------------------
Final Words

I really, REALLY, hope that any possible harm never falls on bOB. I'd recommend that no-one else get overzealous and contact anyone that isn't a TRUSTED source. I doubt we could get sued, but with a big company, who knows??

I hope that IF anyone from Intel is reading this, that they see I'm just trying to use "blue"*. I'm NOT trying to cause financial peril to anyone, prevent a loss of revenue, abuse intellectual property, or anything devious.

*(My machine has been named "blue". Any other additions to the family will be named numerically to follow, eg.: blue2, blue3, maybe I'll do superblue, or something like that latter bOB willing. :)

-jsmmd

hope that made sense. i'm a bit befuddled and stressed now.

04-09-2003 20:19:24

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) TheBigDog
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jsmmd,

I appreciate your effort. However, at this point, I highly suggest the rest of us keep this topic as low profile as possible (no flaming on intel / tiger / whoever, no info begging or what not) as the more "wave" we create, the less likely we will be successful in this particular hobby given the circumstances. Let's only share your technical findings in this forum and keep it as low key as possible under further development.

Enuf said.

04-09-2003 20:41:17

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) Kludgemeister
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My wife named hers (I'm building this up for her to replace an iopener that was stolen from her office) "Manuel" after the Fawlty Towers waiter ("I can speak English. I learn it from a book." http://www.tvheaven.ca/manuelmoose2.JPG )

Kludgemeister

04-09-2003 22:44:50

New MessageRE:TigerDirect (modified 0 times) keith721
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I got a reply from Lonny last night. The TigerDirect units have had their BIOS reflashed by an authorized refurbisher to permit operation as a regular PC. I'll let you guys know what I see when mine arrives Friday evening, and see if I can snarf the BIOS out with one of the many BIOS backup/loader utilities out there.

Judging from the "USB dongle" approach Greg mentioned, and the knowledge we have of a normal BIOS reflash process, it's likely that they loaded a 32 megabyte USB keychain disk with the new BIOS and flash utility, and booted with the USB device, similar to using a boot floppy. If anyone is feeling brave, they can try this route, at the obvious risk of rendering their dot.station a large blue doorstop. Of course, that's just part of hacking, isn't it ??

keith721

04-10-2003 05:50:01

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) wvgeo
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jsmmd,
Don't get to stressed out over the situation. boB shouldn't get into trouble, he's just a guy trying to make a buck by reselling stuff and below Intel's radar. On the otherhand, CompanyX may be getting the call from Intel for violating their agreement to reflash the units for resale.

I agree that we should keep this problem low key insofaras limiting contact to Intel or other vendors. However, jsmmd should keep the line open with his contact at Intel just in case he can get the dongle from them. If you haven't already done so jsmmd, you should post what you found out from Intel on the Spanish BBS. It looks like CompanyX let some of the unflashed units loose in Spain, and our Spanish counterparts may appreciate the info on how their AOLs could be reflashed.

04-10-2003 06:37:32

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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I agree. bOB should be safe, but I should have been more careful.

I'll post a message on the Spanish BBS, when I get closure within a week (I hope).

04-10-2003 07:08:54

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) gdlanzi
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jsmmd,

Not only do I believe that you did NOT get boB in any trouble, but I believe that you may have stumbled across the solution. It seems Greg's only concern is that Intel not be bombarded with requests for support, and that the resellers must modify the systems so that it won't be an issue for them. Since we are a self supporting group if the subject is put them in terms of making there lives easier, I'm sure they will make the usb dongle available to you. I'd suggest that you continue to be the only Intel contact, and that you assure Greg that we have all agreed not to contact Intel for help regarding the dot stations, and that all we ask for politely is that they make one dongle available to us and we'll take it from there. Again, we must all agree that only jsmmd contact Intel. What are your thoughts?

04-10-2003 20:07:20

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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Regardless of the outcome with Intel, I'd like to encourage all to keep plugging away. No word still.

PS - I bought another sibling for blue yesterday, I'll get it Monday.

04-10-2003 22:12:57

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) wvgeo
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I agree with gdlanzi that jsmmd should be the only contact with Intel. Jsmmd, you should keep in contact with Greg and try to get the key from him. Heck, they must have them if Tiger and the Spanish company are reselling Dots. Even if you had to purchase the key from Intel, jsmmd, I'm sure the others on this board with the boB Dot would pitch in. I would.

So, NO ONE ELSE CONTACT INTEL for now. Jsmmd, you may want to just mention to Greg that the rest of us are not going to contact them as you're asking, requesting, begging, pleading, pursuading, praying for a key. If they won't send you a key, however, you may also mention that all bets would be off and they may be deluged with calls from upset INTEL Dot.Station owners.

Dan

04-11-2003 06:59:45

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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I don't think I should mention "others", might freak the guy out to know:

1.) There ARE others.
2.) We're "hackers" / hobbyists. (He seemed to look down on those who were involved with the i-opener "project")

When I talked to him I did mention that I would be willing to pay something, if necessary for the dongle. That didn't seem of interest to him.

04-11-2003 07:12:03

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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I believe this to be the last post in this thread.

I called Greg at Intel and this is a quick listing of his comments.

- He wasn't bothered by my calls. It gave him a chance to have a "project reunion" of sorts.

- Intel, as part of the legal deal, handed all intellectual property on the dot.station off to AOL Avant. He doubts they even have a copy of the key around, and they don't know where to look.

- He feels bad, would help if he could, but doesn't have anything to offer. If that changes he'll be in touch.

I'm not empathic, but he sounded legit. I don't think anyone else will get any furthur as Intel just doesn't have the resources, or information anymore for this product it would seem. (Trust me, that's not a shocker, I work for a big company, it can happen.)


As things stand it seems that the majority of us with dot.bob(s) are faced with the following options

1. OS Hack
2. Dongle hack, but not sure what the dongle should be or have.
3. Physically remove the bios, and replace / reflash
4. Buy a replacement motherboard.

I'd like to encourage all to focus on one or more of the above options.

I personally think the best option is a OS hack since we really don't know at this time what the dongle should/shouldn't have on it. Since I don't know Linux the OS hack has been very challenging, frustrating, and exciting.


I am closing this thread. If anything changes or I'm able to pry more information out of intel it'll re-open. If you need to talk about this topic, email me directly, don't make a new thread. I can open it if needed.


jsmmd / MethodicJon
04-14-2003 17:24:56

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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I have been thinking about the problems we're having with the lack of information on the dongle. I'm re-opening this thread to gather a list of questions that I should sent to Intel in a last ditch effort to get any usable information out of them.

I welcome all to posts. I would suggest that the questions not be too techinical.

eg.:

Is the dongle a USB HDD?, of so, how many megs. is it?
What was on the dongle? Merely bios flash recovery files?


I'll keep this open for 1 week, at that time, all questions from here will be sent off. I'll post my own questions over the next few days.


jsmmd / MethodicJon
04-16-2003 17:45:03

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) TheBigDog
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What kind of file system is on the USB dongle? (does it matter?)
What kind of USB device is it? and How big? Any maximum size limitation?
What does it do? Does it make changes to the HD or BIOS?
04-16-2003 18:34:00

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) Anacleto
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Hi friends, sorry by my spanglish

I have been looking for information about "USB dongle" and it is only a USB memory key probably, that included a digital signature or security key, that when it is connected in the usb port and be started original “AOL Avant dot.station”, it authenticates administrator and allows the access to the BIOS, being able to change it, to install another operating system, etc... USB dongle can be used as a security feature. When enabled in the BIOS, once usb dongle has been removed from the USB port, the Bios system is locked from unauthorized user access.

It could be posible to update the BIOS of the original AOL Avant dot.station (client) also by network, through server, since it is a designed equipment to be administrated trough card PXE remotely, but it must have implemented the BIOS a security system BIS (Boot Integrity Service) also. uses digital signature technology and public-key cryptography to ensure that systems booting from the network. This security system occupies 48k in the BIOS.

Vood said in Spanish forum that the original AOL Avant dot.station BIOS is completely different that the ABAZ BIOS used in free dot.stations

From: http://www.el-muelle.net/foros/showthread.php?s=0f34159883180fdb7860a215ca5396a5&postid=52304#post52304 in Spanish
http://www.el-muelle.net/foros/showthread.php?s=0f34159883180fdb7860a215ca5396a5&postid=52304#post52304 in Spanglish

04-17-2003 03:34:01

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) chillywilly
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Please add these to the questions to ask Intel.

If a dongle cannot be provided could we possibly get a registration number and code to unlock the registration window?
How about they provide a service where we could send the system board and they can reflash the bios? I would be willing to pay a small fee.

thanks,
ChillyWilly

04-22-2003 06:54:02

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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chillywilly,

I had the same question to them when I spoke to Greg. He said that it's something outside of their hands and was a responsibility of the ISP. He had no suggestions. :(

04-22-2003 08:24:17

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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RFC. Below is my draft. Anything missing, or should be re-stated?

------------
Greg,

Thank you for your patience in the past with the dot.station. I've made a little progress, but I was wondering if you might be willing to answer a few questions that might help me out. I can appreciate Intel no longer supports this unit, but if you might be willing to forward this email on to the correct individuals it might help me make some progress!

Your patience is vastly appreciated!!!

-Jon

BIOS / Motherboard

On the motherboard there is a BIOS Setup Configuration Jumper. According to the official motherboard specification removing the jumper will put the BIOS into recovery mode, "The BIOS attempts to recover the BIOS configuration. Bootable recovery media is required."

-Was the BIOS recovery mode disabled from this motherboard?
-If not, could it be possible to perform a BIOS recovery to overwrite the HPG Bootloader BIOS?
-If yes, what bootable medium would I use? (standard IDE cdrom?, USB device?, slimline IDE device?)

-Is there any official, or even unofficial service someone could extend if I sent the motherboard and they could re-flash the BIOS?


OS

-It would seem that the installed version of Netscape is a beta that expired.
-Is there any known way around this problem?
-I'm sure there are certain checks in place to verify the installed software on the drive? Is there a way to de-activate those checks to allow me to install another version of Netscape?

Dongle

-What kind of USB device is it?
-How big is the storage on the device?
-Are there any maximum size limitation?
-What kind of file system is on the USB dongle?
-Does the file system matter?
-What does it do? Does it make changes to the HD or BIOS?
-What was on the dongle? (Merely bios flash recovery files, or a digital signature / security key)?
-It would be ideal if there was some way I could re-build the dongle? Is that possible?


------- EOF

04-28-2003 14:46:26

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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I decided to talk to Greg just to make sure Intel was still open to talking to me/us. I FINALLY, got him on the phone today.

At first he seemed very defensive, but once I started to talk about the successes that have been achieved he seemed excited, happy, and interested. In the discussion he further reiterated that Intel doesn't have the dongle anymore, nor anyone who remembers exactly what was on it. :(

I'll be sending an email to Greg early next week highlight the OS progress, and staring off with some general Linux OS questions.

I figure if we can get the email functionality to work, and figure out how to install another version of Netscape (circumventing the gui's protection), then the machine would almost be usable as is. Later I will get into the lilo and the dos partitions.

05-23-2003 20:41:48

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) gnomeboy
Profile | Email
I found this on http://lwn.net/2001/0329/press.php3 :

"Intel uses Linux, Mozilla in AOL Web gizmo deal. Intel will supply 250,000 Web access devices, known as the Dot.Station, to Spain's biggest bank, Banco Santander Central Hispano, who in turn will offer them to clients with America Online Inc. The Dot.Station, which is a blue color similar to the one Intel uses in its logo, runs the Linux operating system and uses a Mozilla Web browser."

maybe the name of the company they sold them to would spark someone's memory?


You didn't hear it from me,
Keep this on the down low, hush hush, on the QT
06-04-2003 14:45:29

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
Profile
I just sent the following to Intel:


Greg,

Thank you for your patience in the past with the dot.station. I've made a little progress, but I was wondering if you might be willing to answer a few questions that might help me out. I can appreciate Intel no longer supports this unit, but if you might be willing to forward this email on to the correct individuals it might help me make some progress!

Your patience is vastly appreciated!!!

-Jon

Progress:

I have disassembled the dot, and installed the HDD into a machine running Linux, (Knoppix).
I mounted the partitions and after many many hours of browsing, and testing I found that if I dropped an xterm call into rpm2db.sh, I'd get a Linux shell. I learned reading the config files that if a file, provisioned existed, with a 1 inside, it would load up the OS, and skip the ISP authentication screen. I learned to change the language in the CurrentLocale file.

Netscape won’t run as it is “expired”. It seems the beta version that was used is now expired. To correct this I had to roll back the date. To do that I had to figure out how to get root, or rather the root password. I determined it was 1234, and set the clock to 2000. Next I had to disable the proxy settings, which took a little bit if hunting.

As it stands, except for the date being wrong my dot.station is about 100% with the modem removed, but I do have a few questions and maybe someone can help…



OS

It would seem that the installed version of Netscape is a beta that expired.
* Is there any known way around this problem?
* There seems to be certain checks in place by the OS to verify the installed software on the drive? Is there a way to de-activate those checks to allow me to install another version of Netscape? (It seems that there are MD5 checksums for the executables which are stored in the database and are verified??)



Dongle

* What kind of USB device is it?
* What kind of file system is on the USB dongle?
* Does the file system matter?
* What does it do? Does it make changes to the HD or BIOS?
* What was on the dongle? (Merely bios flash recovery files, or a
digital signature / security key)?
* It would be ideal if there was some way I could re-build the dongle?
Is that possible?


PS - I'm getting married this Saturday and won't be back till the end of the month. No big rush on the information. If I don't hear from you upon my return I'll drop you a line to see if anyone had any information to share.

Thanks!!! -Jon


06-04-2003 22:58:17

New MessageRE:Intel Corporate (modified 0 times) jsmmd
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I sent Greg an email asking if he heard anything from anyone. He said he'd ask around.
06-24-2003 12:26:21

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