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Win98 and Sandisk.
Using the Sandisk.

New MessageWin98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) ckbone
I know many people running Win98 off a hard drive, have the sandisk just sitting there, doing nothing. Since you don't have a floppy to boot off in an emergency...you can use the sandisk for this purpose. Using PartionMagic, I formatted the Sandisk and made it active. Then from the Windows DOS prompt you SYS the disk....Format D: /s....you can then boot to either the sandisk( DOS) or Win98 simply by changing the boot order. D first or C first. You can then add any DOS rescue programs to the Sandisk. I have Drive Image there. In case of a complete hard drive crash, I can restore the the operating system using this Drive Image program, and the image file stored on the second partition of the hard drive. This is my latest rescue program: Using Fix-It Utilities 4 floppy Anti-Virus rescue set, I can run the whole program from the Sandisk. Here's how: You don't use disk 1....From Win 98 on the hard drive, you make a folder called PCSCAN on the sandisk...Drag all the files from rescue disks 2,3, 4, to this folder. To access this program, boot to DOS on the sandisk, change to the directory (cd pcscan) then run the progran PCSCAN.EXE. This works perfect...and will enable you to do a complete virus scan/removal from the system, should your hard drive become unbootable from a virus. I've still got 10 megs left on the scandisk for more DOS programs. Anybody else doing this? (Can't be too careful these days)
06-25-2000 06:19:11

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) Lokrien
Hey, we have the same idea... I did the same thing (part. mag.) and used the win98 boot disk to put the rescue files on. I have a parallel port CD rom and have the drivers ready for dos on that as well, so that if I boot from the sandisk, I have a cdrom ready to go. Partition Magic is also on there (ver. 3 I think) as it fits in ~5 meg. I also have some of the drivers, etc. there as well, just in case they are lost! -- BIG HD crash protection!

I also loaded some DOS MP3 players on there in case I want a pure mp3 player, sans hard drive!

good work!


ps. I thought about putting the Norton rescue disk stuff on there too to use with my zip drive, that might do a better job, as it should bring the whole OS back up!

06-25-2000 07:43:33

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) radman
Now you have a D: can you it as vitual memory, to increase RAM?
06-27-2000 11:23:24

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) Parasyght
Im about to flash my sandisk to v2 of qnx, could i just fdisk it instead? Then flash the bios with qnxflash? or does the bios flashing program only work in qnx. In that case, i see why one would have to dolly the qnx back to v2 or v1.

as for using the sandisk as a virtual mem, since it has limited amout of times it can be written to, it doesnt sound like a good idea.

07-02-2000 17:53:34

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) budw
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I'm kind of new to this, so bear with me.
First of all, approximately how many times can the SanDisk be written to? Does the low memory area wear out first or does everything deteriorate at the same rate?
I'm running W98se on my iOpener and the SanDisk is usually not recognized at bootup. I found out that using the BIOS hard drive auto detect will cause the SanDisk to be recognized at least during that particular boot. Just accept the default of "N" for both drives and exit the setup. You don't even need to save anything. If it's a virgin SanDisk, you can use FDISK to remove the NON DOS partitions, then create one for DOS. The SanDisk can then be formatted although you might have to do the BIOS hard drive detect thing again when you're forced to reboot.
I'm having a real problem with making the SanDisk bootable. My system says the SanDisk is a primary slave drive (D). The system will not allow a slave drive or secondary drive to have an active partition. Even if I disconnect the hard drive (C) and even tell CMOS that there is no primary drive, I still can't make the SanDisk active since the system still considers it as a primary slave drive. As far as I can tell, only the primary master drive can be booted from even with multiple boot systems. I've got my SanDisk setup to be bootable. I'm able to transfer control to it by using the COMMAND.COM command, but that's about it.
Can someone take me by the hand and show me how the SanDisk can be recognized as the boot disk?
04-26-2001 17:13:17

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) ckbone
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Wow!!!! One of my first posts brought back to life...... The sandisk on my first I-Opener is still working just as I described. I use this I-Opener every day....still works fine. As I posted, I used Partition Magic for the whole operation.... Deleteing the four partitions of the QNX OS, making one partition (it ends up as fat 12), then making it active(bootable). I put DOS on it just as described. You can use a program like Boot Magic to easily boot either DOS on the Sandisk, or whatever on the hard drive....it sounds like you were never able to make the Sandisk active......
04-26-2001 17:43:26

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) budw
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OK, I'll agree that Partition Magic can make the SanDisk active and may even be able to boot from it. The fact still remains that the 'C' drive main partition has to be made active in order to boot normally. This in effect cancels out the active SanDisk (I think). I am just wondering what happens if the 'C' drive goes south. Where is one going to get Partition Magic from to make the SanDisk active since you aren't able to boot? As long as Partition Magic is available (on the 'C' drive) everything is OK and all experimentation seems to follow some semblance of order. A good way to test this would be to boot normally, shut down, unplug the hard drive, and then try to boot. I haven't checked, but will, that maybe Partition Magic can assign more than one active partition at the same time and the system boots from the first one it runs into. Seems kind of unlikely knowing the BIOS manufactures, but one can never tell. I'm going to do some testing as soon as I get Partition Magic over to the iOpener.
What about the number of writes permitted to the SanDisk?
I just love this!!
04-26-2001 20:32:58

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) StormFlare
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Hey all:

What you suggested above (checking the SanDisk without a hard drive) is something you need to do. I spent about half-a-day a couple of weeks ago working on this problem. You can set the SanDisk active and SYS it, but it won't boot from it. I had to do some tricky stuff in order to get it to boot, and now it works GREAT and can boot from both the hard drive and SanDisk... with or without a hard drive.

This is what I had to do (I had to use my desktop system for steps 1-3):

1. Created a 16MB (as close as possible to the SanDisk) primary partition on the hard drive
2. Set it active
3. SYS'ed it
4. Installed all the DOS utilities that I wanted in my image
5. Used DOLLY.EXE and cloned the first 16MB of the hard drive
6. Used the image that I created and cloned it onto the SanDisk
7. Viola!

I know that the method I used was pretty archaic, but it works great. I tried PQMAGIC earlier, but the SanDisk just wouldn't boot even after I SYS'ed it from DOS.


Hope this helps... any questions, let me know.

StormFlare

04-26-2001 21:13:28

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) * StarFish *
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As far as Write Limit for Sandisk, I think the Story was,
If You want to write to it once or twice a Day, You don't have to Worry @ All !

But, You Can't Use it as a TEMP Folder or a Cache / Buffer. That would Kill it !

Hopefully some else can Explain it Clearer, If this is Confusing ?

04-26-2001 21:53:11

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) budw
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Thanks to both StormFlare and StarFish.
I hadn't thought about imaging an active partition from a hard drive to the SanDisk. I'm not familiar with DOLLY, but isn't it a Linux thing? I couldn't find it with a brief search to verify. Probably kind of corresponds to Symantec/Norton GHOST that I have. I have Linux loaded on one of my other desktops and play with it now and then. I'll have to try the imaging solution using one of my 'old' (pre GB) hard drives. I'll experiment some this weekend and let you know what happens. If I'm really unsuccessful and become exasperated you can reach me at the sanitarium out west of town. I don't think they let one have computers there.
A little off the subject. I am transferring information (drivers, etc) to my iOpener using the W98se built in Direct Cable Connection (parallel). It's a little slow, but works. One can even access the floppy on the host PC.
The volume on my iOpener is really low. Is this normal? I'm using the proper Yamaha OPL3…. drivers. I could use some external powered speakers, but would rather not.
Words of wisdom: Do NOT use a propane torch to solder stuff to a motherboard, as you might burn your fingers! Bud W.
04-27-2001 03:07:41

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) ckbone
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BudW....You answered your own question....Partition Magic can make more than one partition active. When you remove the hard drive the Sandisk is still there and active and will boot. Here's how to tell if the Sandisk is active : Say you have two partitions on your hard drive...And your Sandisk is active....When you boot the hard drive, the Sandisk will show up as the D drive since the bootable partitions will always arrange themselves in order before any non-bootable partitions. In a regular computer with three hard drives all bootable independently.....the three bootable partitions will show up as C, D, E.

I wouldn't worry too much about hurting the Sandisk by overuse.....I never heard of it happening.

04-27-2001 03:24:17

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) laserfan
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I can't remember if Flash memory typically specs-out at 1,000,000 writes or if it's 10,000,000 (it's the latter I believe), but either way you will theoretically hit a wall with it if you write to it every few seconds. Do the math--a write every two seconds would hit 10 million after 231 days.

I investigated this for commercial control applications a few years ago, and there was significant concern that it should NOT be used where frequent writes are involved. The flip-side of this is that if you're writing just, say, twice a minute, the math changes to a useful life of almost 10 years! This is easily 10 times the attention-span of most of us gizmo geeks isn't it.

There are other factors involved (e.g. writes to specific locations of the flash) but in general it's a safe bet that if your application writes to memory every few seconds (or more) then you shouldn't use Flash for it.

04-27-2001 05:23:35

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) ckbone
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FWIW...I just posted a more complete explanation of this operation with pictures in the How-To topic.

http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=technical&Post=2142&Idle=10&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=0&Session=ckbone.98858242012244

04-29-2001 15:18:04

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) vailr
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Free partitioning software, which can make the sandisk bootable, whereas FDISK can't.
Ranish Partition Manager
http://www.users.intercom.com/~ranish/part/
04-29-2001 22:08:31

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) Deke
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OK, I have Win98 installed and everyhting is fine, but it shows a removable disk as drive a, and then c: as my harddrive. I thought A was the sandisk,and windows was telling me it had to be formatted, but when I went to do so it listed it as only 180k. I'd like to make use of the sandisk, can somebody let me know what to do.

Deke

05-07-2001 14:54:30

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) ckbone
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Deke...The "A" drive you see is a phantom drive....not the sandisk. If you want to use the sansisk in Windows, follow the link 3 posts up. I explained exactly how to make the sandisk bootable there.
05-07-2001 17:55:08

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) laserfan
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Since describing how pleased I was with myself for getting my SanDisk to be bootable, and then using BootMagic instead of the BIOS change to switch between the SanDisk and the Hard Drive, I've realized this isn't really working as expected or needed. When I select the SanDisk for bootup, the former C: drive (my hard disk primary partition) is Hidden, and the SanDisk becomes C:, and my 2nd (logical) partition with my Drive Image copy of the Windows partition is D:. No Windows partition can be found. Now, because the Windows (normal C: drive) partition is Hidden by BootMagic, if I wanted/needed to restore it from the backup image on the D: partition I couldn't do it!!!!?

At first I twiddled with BootMagic's Properties, thinking I might Override its proclivity to Hide the other OS, but this didn't work--it only resulted in a failure to be able to boot from the SanDisk, i.e. selecting "MS-DOS" (the SanDisk) from the BootMagic boot menu still resulted in a boot to Windows (apparently cuz that partition was forced visible?).

Next I realized I'd formatted my Primary drive partition (the normally C: drive) as FAT32, and that maybe it needed to be a FAT16 partition to be "seen". So I used Partition Magic to convert this partition to FAT16. Didn't change things. I even invoked "fdisk /mbr" to see what this might do, and it only had the expected effect which was to restore normal boot into the Hard Disk C:\Windows drive, and re-running BootMagic restored the option selection on boot.

I feel like I'm missing something obvious--can anyone suggest what might be wrong? I've used System Commander successfully in the past, but never tried Boot Magic before this.

05-30-2001 06:56:35

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) laserfan
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One other thing: booting to Win98 doesn't hide the SanDisk, why does booting to the SanDisk (using Boot Magic) hide the Win98 partition? Again, I'm feeling like I'm missing something really obvious here!

Note BTW that my SanDisk has been loaded with the Ultimate Boot Disk utilities, which is grounded in the COMMAND.COM that is from the Win98 disk, i.e. not classic MS-DOS v6.22.

05-30-2001 07:06:02

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) ckbone
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I'm not sure what the Ultimate boot disk did, if anything. Here's what I know about this problem.....The version of DOS you're using is a Win98 version, not "Real DOS". It can exist on, and can recognize fat32 partitions. There is no need to use Fat16 for any of these programs. To see for yourself, boot to DOS on the sandisk ( this will be C when you boot this way)....then change to a Fat32 partition (cd D:) then type DIR....you will see all files on that partition.

The Boot magic program searches for bootable OSs on the various drives/partitions...it doesn't always get the names right....what you have to do is boot an OS, see what it is, then go back into Boot Magic and rename the OS to what it really is. (that is if you have multiple OSs on the disk). I can't quite figure what happened here.....Boot Magic works fine for me, allowing a selection of DOS, Win98, or Win2k.

05-30-2001 16:42:49

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) KneuB_2
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I have configured my sandisk as an emergency boot drive. The intent is to be able to clean up a crashed HD and re-install the OS without having to take the HD out of the machine. So far my sandisk boots using Win98 DOS to which I have added the drivers to make USB CD-ROMs and Jumpdrives accessable. I have Ranish Partition Manager installed, the HD manufacturers low level format utility installed, Dolly installed, and another application called "clone" that I found on the Son of Spy freeware web site. I have completely flattened the HD, re-built partitions, and formated them. I have access to the Win98 CD on the CD-ROM but since the setup.exe file will not run under DOS how do we install a new OS. Dolly can take a "Dolly" *.IMG off a CD (if you have made an image of a working HD) and clone it to a HD, but it will not clone a bootable CD to a partition. Clone is basically Xcopy with attributes so it will move the entire contents of the CD (including hidden files) to a partition, but it is still not bootable. What is it about a bootable CD that makes it bootable and how can we setup a partition in like manner so that we can copy the Win98 CD contents to one partition....boot from it and install the OS onto another partition?
06-27-2004 22:54:38

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) oldman
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KneuB_2:
since when does win98 setup.exe NOT run under DOS command: 'C (or d):[name of your setup files directory]\setup.exe'?

a windows installation has to start somewhere.


oldman
06-28-2004 18:25:43

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) oldman
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KneuB_2:

for a how-to make a bootable CD check i/o general posts for 10/17/2002.


oldman
06-28-2004 18:51:45

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) KneuB_2
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Oldman

It does not make any sense to me either, but I have tried it at lease a half dozen times, some attempts directly from the CD and a few times I copied the file to the HD and tried to run it there, but each time I get a message to the effect that setup.exe is not a DOS executable. I have been reading up on bootable CD's and I will admitt that I could be off the deep end on this one, but it does not appear that CD's boot in a DOS environment. There are a couple files (bootcat.bin being one of them) that have to be meet some BIOS CD-ROM boot criteria that somehow allows the system to boot from a bootable system image file on the CD. Now the Win98 CD does have a Winsys.IMG file on it, which I assume is the "bootable system image" file. Since setup.exe will not run under DOS, I assume it runs under whatever the Winsys.IMG is. My question then becomes; Is there a utility available that will allow us to place that Winsys.img onto another drive (partition) in a usable manner so that we can then boot from that drive (partition) and run the setup.exe file to install the full OS onto the main partition?

06-28-2004 19:24:31

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) KneuB_2
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six minute limit to modify a post or it's to late! that is steep!

OK I just read the link you provided above and there are DOS bootable CD's, infact they can include support for multiple OS's, but they don't have to and it appears from my expereance so far that the Win98 CD does not include DOS. I sahll read some more, but if anybody knows the answer I would greatlly appreciate hearing it.

06-28-2004 19:40:04

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) oldman
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KneuB_2:

Whenever I install Win95B, win98SE or WinME on a i-o, stylistic or anything else that does not have a CD, I install the HD in a desktop as a slave, I make the HD bootable to a 'C:\' prompt, copy all the setup.exe and CAB files to a directory (folder) on the HD with the HD installed in a desktop.

Then I take the HD out of the desktop and install it in the i-o or whatever, boot up to the 'C:\' prompt, change directory to the directory where the setup.exe and CAB files are and enter 'setup' and have no trouble installing Windoze from a DOS 'C:\' prompt.

If you can have CD support in DOS with MSCDEX.EXE and the drivers for the CD like we had in Win3.1, I do not see why you cannot install any 9X version of windows from a CD.

have fun,


oldman
06-28-2004 23:05:35

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) KneuB_2
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Oldman et. al.

I broke down and opened the i-opener (why do I feel defeated). Anyway I put the HD onto another PC with an A: drive and ran the Hitachi Drive Fittness Test (Low Level Format) utility to set the drive back to square one. After that I placed the Win98 CD into the drive and rather than reboot from the CD I double clicked the statup.exe application. It was NOT the Win98 installation setup file but rather the "Extras" .... MSWorks (I always get a good tickle from that oxymoron) media player etc. Anyway I went through all the subdirectories and did the same with every setup.exe file on the CD, nada! all were "extras" of one sort or another. I then used Notepad to open the *.IMG files. Winsys.IMG did not enlighten me any, but one that I had overlooked earlier called OSBOOT.IMG (DUH) was rather helpful. There are all sorts of stuff in this one including the extract.exe OFDISK, OFORMAT and the unzip.exe file, plus a lot more. The OS in the IMG file was MSDOS V 7.0. The autoexec file sets up a three choice menu; Install with HD format, Install without HD Format, and Boot to DOS C: prompt. I had never selected that last one before, so i rebooted and did. It sets up a ramdisk drive call "A:" on which is a standard DOS boot drive with all of the applicable DOS execuatbles for doing a full installation, at least that is what it looks like, so I copied it to someplace that I could get to easily later. I the re-booted to the CD and ran the install without format and place the HD back into the i-opener. It was at that point that I realized that the install had not given me a drive selection choice and that I had not disconnected the master HD on my main PC. There went my Win2000 pro machine ouch! Anyway that is where I am at (except I'm writting this from the library). I shall attempt to tweak this new boot disk image to setup the USB port first and see if it can then do an instl from the CD since it inherantly has the capability to see the setup file in the OSBOOT.IMG file. I never was good enough with DOS to do this sort of thing so if there is anybody willing to help me over the hurdles when I hit them please let me know. I shall post the hurdles that I fail to jump, as I go.

BTW: The HD is a 12.07 GB Hitachi drive that I had some how managed to turn into a 7.56 GB HD with Ranish (I still do not know how I did that). Anyway FDISK and Ranish were both unable to recover the drive and the DFT software would not do it when running on whatever DOS I was using for the bootdisk on the i-opener. DFT did recover the drive when I ran it off its own boot disk. The real interesting part is that Ranish still refuses to recognize that the drive is anything other than a 7.56 drive and as such prevents me from doing anything with it other than format it as a 7.56 GB drive, wich of course I won't do. Obviously, Ranish has some sort of memory that I need to wipeout. any suggestions?

07-05-2004 13:54:51

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) redwood
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ok, I hope this is Helpful.. I keep it on hand to share with people re/installing...

I like to make TWO partitions, C: for system, and D:, for EVERYTHING ELSE.. I then Save my C: image, on the D: partition, if I have a problem, Drive Image (or Ghost) will give me a nice Clean system, in just a few minutes..

here are the instructions: ( you can safely close up yer Iopener with yer HD, as long as you have yer sandisk, with dos, and Drive Image... Good Luck!

How to Install Windows 98

After you partition and format your hard disk, you can install Windows 98:

Insert the Windows 98 Startup disk in the floppy disk drive, and then restart your computer.

When the Windows 98 Startup menu is displayed, choose the Start computer with CD-ROM
support option, and then press ENTER.


Insert the Windows 98 CD-ROM in the CD-ROM drive, type the following command at a command
prompt, and then press ENTER

X : cd x:\win98 dir

where X is the drive letter that is assigned to your CD-ROM drive. ( prolly, e:\win98)

====> Type e: copy *.* c:\win98 (this Copies, all the install files, onto your HD... )

Reboot to C:
cd c:\win98
type 'setup'
windows will install!

When you receive the following message, press ENTER, and then follow the instructions on the
screen to complete the Setup procedure:

Please wait while the Setup initializes. Setup is now going to perform a routine check on your
system. To continue press Enter.

07-05-2004 19:23:25

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) Rezz
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I have been toying with this a bit, also without success. I keep getting a messages that high memory is not available and low memory will be used instead. Is it possible to make high memory available? If so How?

I have an emergency boot disk that creates a ramdisk at boot and expands the contents of the diskett into the ramdisk from which it runs. What application is used to create the compressed file that the DOS expand command is capable of working with?

08-05-2004 01:09:05

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) fireether
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guys, lets take a step back. what i mean is, when i was reading the last couple of posts, it seemed to me that (no offense) you were making things way too complicated. if you have a desktop with a floppy drive, then do this.

get a dos6.22 bootdisk image, or get a windows98 bootdisk image, whatever works for you. you want to have only the hard drive you want to use on the iopener attached to your desktop, and to boot from the bootdisk.

now, remember that older bios's have a 8gb or so hard drive limit, same with older dos versions. and from what im seeing, that would explain why the hard drive comes up at 7gb or so.

so once you boot into dos (i'll assume you wrote the boot disk image onto floppy, and rebooted with iopener hd attached, or with your own boot disk) - you'll want to fdisk the hd you want to put into the iopener. make two partitions, say, 4gb each. maybe 2gb for windows, 6gb for storage. there are ways to get around the 7gb limit, but windows 98 wont take that much disk space.. if you want to get a utility that'll allow you to use all of the hard drive, you can do that at this point. dont forget to make the partition active/bootable (same thing). once you setup the partition and do format /s to systemize the partition..

you then would reconnect your normal hard drive, BUT leaving the iopener hard drive attached (as slave). dont boot from floppy, and boot to your normal operating system. then.. copy the whole win98 directory from the windows 98 cd to the hard drive you want to use in the iopener.

now.. you have two roads you can choose from.

1.) install windows 98 on your desktop, and then moving the hard drive to the iopener.
2.) install windows 98 with the iopener hd attached to the iopener.

either way, you will have to boot from the hard drive (it should be systemized and active) - and then cd to win98, and then run setup.exe. if it complains about not having a memory manager, just copy himem.sys to the hard drive, then edit config.sys so it loads it.

perhaps.. one reason WHY you are having problems with running windows 98 setup is because the bios/ranish makes the hard drive (and thus the partition) seem smaller than it actually is, which could lead to wierd things such as programs not being "dos progams". the best way to avoid this is to format your hard drive as under 8gb (7gb, 6gb, etc) for the windows partition, even if you dont want to do it, unless you're using a disk manager that "tricks" the bios. another way to ensure that it'll work is to use dos 6.22 to install, rather than win98's dos (which is 7.0, very similiar to 6.22 but with changes within).

i'll try and answer any of your questions and help out. i made my 64mb compact flash dos-bootable into dos 6.22 and then made my 16mb sandisk onboard flashdisk dos bootable as well, and then put in the bios flash files in there. also the 5.40a bios supports a smartboot bootloader, just goto the bios setup and enable it. that way you can boot from the sandisk if your hard drive goes bad.

one other way to get around the 7.54gb problem is to install grub into the sandisk and to boot from the sandisk, and then chainload from the hard drive from the sandisk. but i'll leave that for another day. also maybe smartboot can get around the 7.54gb problem.

08-09-2004 05:22:43

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) KneuB_2
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Fireether et.al.

The battle still rages but I have made some progress, I can now load Win98 from a USB CD drive. I have also gotten stumped on a lot of other fronts. Here is the short version;

The setup files on both my Win98 and Win 2000 Pro CD's cannot be run in DOS mode. For all those that do not believe that then here is a way to convince yourself. Open Notepad and then put your master Win98 or Win2K CD in the drive. From Notepad select FILE OPEN and navigate to the CD and select the setup file. Setup will open in notepad and what you will see is mostly a lot of machine code gibberish. However, all text notes will be readable. On the very first line, right after a short string of machine code gibberish, is the statement "This program cannot be run in DOS mode." Any attempt to run the setup file from a dos environment always puts that message on the screen.

That brings up the obvious question "So what OS is the CD booting in and how does it run the setup file?

The answer to that question, at least as far as the Win98 CD is concerned, is DOS. Let me explain what I think I have learned but first let me put up my disclaimer and give a little back ground.

I am not a code writer and the last time I looked at DOS was over 20 years ago and I did not understand it then, so I have spent a lot of time studying DOS and experimenting with this over the last few months.

My Win2K Pro CD is straight from Microsoft, but my Win98 CD is the OEM CD from my old eMachine computer.

The entire OS on the bootable Win98 CD is located in the BootOS.img file, the contents of which can not be viewed in DOS mode, at least not the way you would look into a directory. My best guess is the ability to reach into an .img file to boot from is somehow provided by the BIOS. Now I did use an extract tool to find out what was in the BootOS.img file and a couple of other .img files on the CD and learned that there are other setup files in them. But I also learned that the loading of the Win98 files onto the HD was not done with those setup files but was done in the autoexec.bat and config.sys files in the BootOS.img file from which the CD was intended to boot. By copying the autoexec.bat and the config.sys files to the sandisk and modifying them to work from there I am now able to load Win98 from the USB CD-Rom to the HD while booting off the sandisk. The way it works is by setting the environment to "Expand=yes" then create a series of directories on the HD and then uses a DOS zip extractor to unzip the contents of the various .img files on the CD to the appropriate directories on the HD. I simply copied those portions of the autoexec.bat and config.sys to autoexec.bat and config.sys files on the sandisk and changed all the drive letters to point to the sandisk, CD-Rom and HD. My solution was very clumsy and crude but it works. The biggest problem is that it limits me on how I partition the HD since the USB-CD-Rom drive letter is simply the next in line and I had to know what that would be up front. That approach works for a manufactures restore CD where the intent is to take a machine back to original condition from the CD but it is very limiting otherwise and I have not been able to figure out how to use variables so that it will prompt me for the target drive etc. BTW; “SET Expand=yes” is a batch file switch that I could not find any documentation on, I simply copied it from the Win98 CD and it worked. I could sure use a little help figuring out how to get this thing to prompt me for the appropriate drives. I will post the contents of my config.sys and autoexec.bat files tomorrow if I get a lunch break.

The Win2K CD is another beast altogether. There is no autoexec.bat or config.sys file anywhere on the CD that I can find. There is a config.sy_ and an autoexec.nt_ but opening them in notepad only revealed a small amount of machine code gibberish. The only ".img" files on the CD are of the four diskettes used for emergency boot. I assume that those four .img files are what the CD boots from, but as yet I have not figured out how. I did extract them to the four diskettes and nothing in there is recognizable to me. But that is a future refinement as I am having too many other problems with this at the moment.

One big problem is the low level format utilities. Since I have a 12 GB Hitachi in this i opener I have the Hitachi DFT utility on the Sandisk as well as the freeware version of Killdisk. Neither utility is able to format the entire drive in one pass without stalling out. The point at which they stall is random, typically between 30% to 60% complete. The longest run made it to 70% and the shortest was 3%. However, if I take the HD out of the I-O and install it in the e-machine tower and then run the low level format utilities they will actually go the entire distance and zero out the HD. The only way I was able to zero the entire HD while installed in the i-o was to use FDISK to partition it into four parts and run Killdisk on each partition, one at a time, and then run Killdisk on the whole drive to zero out the MBR, which fortunately is the first thing it does because it stalled out at about 60% on that run. This feels like the timing problem of the past but it is occurring in the gigabyte range instead of the megabyte range and this i-o is using the V5.40a BIOS, I do not know what is going on. O2U2, is there any chance I could talk you into installing that Hitachi you just found, into an i-o and running the DFT (and or Killdisk) from the sandisk to see if this problem is repeatable or is it just my machine.

I have not yet done much with trying to install all the drivers from the sandisk but I have looked at the self extracting cyberblade driver file, it is 18 MB when expanded. To use it off the sandisk would either require I learn how to extract it to a ramdisk (which I would kind of like to learn how to do just for the fun of it) and run it from there or identify which of those 18 MB of drivers are actually the appropriate ones for the i-o and scrape the rest of them. I do not know how to identify the correct drivers, does anybody have an idea how to go about that.

I will have to look into that bootloader and grub a little later, they both sound like fun toys.

11-21-2004 21:34:07

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) KneuB_2
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AUTOEXEC.BAT

The following is my "still in-work" Autoexec.bat file for the sandisk. Much of it is just place holder info for my planned projects. Some of it (that which begins with the double colons ::) are remarks that I just added for your reading pleasure. Other than that it is the autoexec.bat file that I just used to insatll the Win98 OS from a USB CD-Rom drive onto a HD mounted in the i-o.

@echo off

::The following line adds a drive letter to the USB CD-ROM or Flash card mounted.
LH MSCDEX.EXE /D:USBCD001

::The following line adds mouse capability. I would add
::USB mouse capability but I have not gotten that figured out yet
LH MOUSE.COM

SET EXPAND=YES
SET DIRCMD=/O:N

::Ideally the TEMP files would be located on a ramdrive to
::save sandisk life but I have not figured that out yet either.
SET temp=c:\Temp
SET tmp=c:\Temp

::It seems to me that PATH should be proceeded by SET
::in this portion of the autoexec.bat file but I have not seen it like that anywhere else.
path=C:;D:;E:\

::I do not know what this does so I won't mess with it
smartdrv.exe 16384

IF "%config%"=="WITH_FORMAT" GOTO Drive_Checkup
IF "%config%"=="WITHOUT_FORMAT" GOTO Drive_Checkup
GOTO "%CONFIG%"

:Drive_Checkup

@echo off

cls
ECHO.
ECHO RESTORE HDD FROM CD ROM
ECHO =======================
ECHO INSTALL PROCESS IS VERIFYING SYSTEM INFORMATION
ECHO.

::The reason these lines are REM is because they do not
::work from the sandisk and I have not been able to find
::documentation sufficient for me to understand what is
::going on with this to fix it.
REM @echo off
REM chk_addr f000:f47b '311C'
REM if errorlevel 1 goto Install_OS
REM goto system_error

:Install_OS

IF "%config%"=="WITHOUT_FORMAT" GOTO Without_Format

:with_format

cls
ECHO.
ECHO RESTORE HDD FROM CD ROM
ECHO =======================
ECHO HARD DRIVE (D:) WILL BE FORMATTED.
ECHO WINDOWS 98 DRIVE IMAGE WILL BE COPIED FROM DRIVE (E:).
ECHO CAUTION: DATA OF HARD DRIVE (D:) WILL BE LOST!
ECHO IF YOU DID NOT BACKUP YOUR FILES IT IS TO LATE
ECHO.

@echo off
C:\oformat D: /s/q

:without_format

cls

ECHO.
ECHO RESTORE HDD FROM CD ROM
ECHO =======================
ECHO RESTORE PROCESS WILL TAKE APPROXIMATELY 2 HOURS.
ECHO DO NOT REMOVE THE CD ROM FROM THE CD ROM DRIVE.
ECHO RESTORE IS NOW IN PROGRESS.
ECHO.

@echo off
D:
cd\

md D:\windows
md D:\windows\system
md D:\windows\options
md D:\Progra~1

cls
C:\unzip -od D:\windows\options\ E:©abs.img
C:\unzip -od D:\Progra~1\ E:\program.img
C:\unzip -od D:\ E:\other.img
C:\unzip -od D:\windows\system\ E:\winsys.img
C:\unzip -od D:\windows\ E:\winother.img

copy C:\winstart.bat D:\windows\winstart.bat
copy C:\lfnbk.exe D:\windows\lfnbk.exe
cls
cd\

cls
ECHO.
ECHO WINDOWS 98 RESTORE COMPLETE
ECHO ===========================
ECHO THE HARD DRIVE IMAGE HAS BEEN RESTORED. REMOVE THE CD ROM
ECHO FROM THE CD ROM DRIVE AND PRESS ANY KEY.
ECHO **STORE THIS CD ROM IN A SAFE LOCATION!**
ECHO.
C:®eboot /P

:system_error

ECHO.
ECHO SYSTEM ERROR
ECHO ============
ECHO YOUR COMPUTER IS NOT RESPONDING, INCORRECT SYSTEM TYPE
ECHO RESTORE CANCELLED.
ECHO.
C:®eboot /P

::From here on is mostly place holders for features
::I am either re-doing or have not yet started and
::thus they are not complete.

:SCSI
:LSI
:TEKRAM
:ATTO
:ATA
GOTO END

:KILL
@ECHO OFF

::I probably should have put this next line at the begining
::for all executable to take advantage of rather than REM it.
REM SET DOS4GW=quiet

CLS
ECHO Active@ KILLDISK is loading ...
KILLDISK.EXE
GOTO END

:unerase
@ECHO OFF
SET DOS4GW=quiet
CLS
ECHO Active@ UNERASER is loading ...
UNERASER.EXE
GOTO END

:USB_Drives
:end


CONFIG.SYS

The following is the config.sys file I'm working on for the i-o, same comments as above.

[menu]
MENUCOLOR=7,0
SUBMENU=TOOLS, Utilities (low level format etc.)
SUBMENU=INSTAL, System Restore Options
MENUITEM=USB_DRIVES, BOOT to DOS with CD-ROM and/or FLASH DRIVE support
MENUDEFAULT=USB_DRIVES,20

[TOOLS]
MENUCOLOR=7,4
SUBMENU=SCSI_MENU, Hitachi Disk Fittness Tools (DFT) SCSI & ATA support
MENUITEM=ATA, ATA support only
MENUITEM=KILL, KillDisk Drive Wipe Utility
MENUITEM=UNERASE, KillDisks Unerase feature
REM MENUITEM=RANISH, RANISH PARTITION MANAGER
MENUITEM=USB_DRIVES, BOOT TO DOS
MENUDEFAULT=USB_DRIVES,20

[INSTAL]
menuitem=WITH_FORMAT, RESTORE WINDOWS 98 - WILL FORMAT HDD
menuitem=WITHOUT_FORMAT, RESTORE WINDOWS 98 - WILL NOT FORMAT HDD
REM menuitem=WIN2K_Format, FORMAT DRIVE AND INSTALL WINDOWS 2000
REM menuitem=LINUX, FORMAT AND PARTITION DRIVE AND INSTALL A VARIANT OF LINUX
REM menuitem=DRIVERS,INSTALL ALL THE I-OPENER DRIVERS
menuitem=USB_DRIVES, BOOT TO DOS PROMPT
menudefault=USB_DRIVES,20
menucolor=7,0

[SCSI_MENU]
MENUCOLOR=7,5
MENUITEM=SCSI, for Adaptec
MENUITEM=LSI, for LSI 320 Controller
MENUITEM=TEKRAM, for Tekram & Symbios Controllers
MENUITEM=ATTO, for ATTO 320 Controller
MENUITEM=USB_DRIVES, BOOT to DOS
MENUDEFAULT=USB_DRIVES,20

[SCSI]
REM DEVICE=A:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
REM DEVICE=A:\DOS\RAMDRIVE.SYS 4000 /E
REM COUNTRY=001,,A:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=A:\ASPI\ASPI2DOS.SYS /D
DEVICE=A:\ASPI\ASPI4DOS.SYS /D
DEVICE=A:\ASPI\ASPI8DOS.SYS /D
DEVICE=A:\ASPI\ASPI8U2.SYS /D
DEVICE=A:\ASPI\ASPI320.SYS /D
DEVICE=A:\ASPI\ASPIUWF.SYS /D

[LSI]
REM DEVICE=A:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
REM DEVICE=A:\DOS\RAMDRIVE.SYS 4000 /E
REM COUNTRY=001,,A:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=A:\ASPI\ASPIMPT.SYS /D

[TEKRAM]
REM DEVICE=A:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
REM DEVICE=A:\DOS\RAMDRIVE.SYS 4000 /E
REM COUNTRY=001,,A:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=A:\ASPI\ASPI8XX.SYS /V

[ATTO]
REM DEVICE=A:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
REM DEVICE=A:\DOS\RAMDRIVE.SYS 4000 /E
REM COUNTRY=001,,A:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=A:\ASPI\EXPRESS2.SYS /D

[ATA]
REM DEVICE=A:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
REM DEVICE=A:\DOS\RAMDRIVE.SYS 4000 /E
REM COUNTRY=001,,A:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS

[Kill]
REM SHELL=C:\Kill\COMMAND.COM C:\Kill /E:512 /P

[UNERASE]
SHELL=C:\Kill\COMMAND.COM C:\Kill /E:512 /P

[WITHOUT_FORMAT]

[WITH_FORMAT]

[USB_Drives]

[COMMON]
REM ;DEVICE=EMM386.EXE NOEMS
BUFFERS=20
FILES=60
DOS=HIGH,UMB
lastdrive=z
device=himem.sys

REM The following loads Panasonic's universal USB- controller driver
REM /v means "verbose"
REM /w means "wait" i.e. attach the USB device
REM /e means EHCI spec (USB 2,0) (??? Host Controller Interface)
REM /o means OHCI spec (newer USB 1.x) (Open Host Controller Interface)
REM /u means UHCI spec (older USB 1.x) (Universal Host Controller Interface)

devicehigh=USBASPI.SYS /V /W /U

REM The following is an aspi mass storage driver for USB-connected HD's and compactflash memory cards

devicehigh=DI1000DD.SYS

REM The following line loads a universal CD-ROM driver

devicehigh=USBCD.SYS /d:USBCD001

[End]

11-22-2004 14:16:56

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) redwood
Profile
ok, I kinda Skipped over your text, but.. the Just of it, I think was... installing from Dos?

Whenever I install win98se.. I just

fdisk
format c:\s installs system files
copy the cab files... win98 , to your HD
reboot into dos, cd to your folder, type setup, and, bingo...

hope this helps you...

11-22-2004 14:19:37

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) Wild_Pencil
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Almost.. but KneuB_2 is installing Win98 from a USB device. Using DOS on the SanDisk to bootstrap the USB driver files.

The line "REM chk_addr f000:f47b '311C'" was probably a BIOS signature check that prevents the restore procedure from running on any unauthorized machines (i.e. not the machine that the disk shipped with..). Dell is notorious for doing stuff like this.

11-22-2004 18:31:15

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) StrangeDog
Profile
To install windows 2k from dos:
Items needed
Bootable win 98 dos environment (to the A: or C: prompt)
Access to the I386 folder on the Win2k cd (or off of an already working Win2k System)
Partitioned, formated and Win98-Dos bootable hard drive to install to (FAT32 is prefered)

1. Boot the machine (be sure cd drivers or network drivers needed to reach the I386 folder are available)
3. Cd /i386 (can be copied to the hard drive, off a cd-rom or on a network drive somewhere)
4. Run the command WINNT
5. The setup program may whine about smartdive being missing (if so ignore and continue)
6. The setup program should ask for a location of the /i386 folder (default is correct 99% of the time)
7. Setup will copy files to the local hard drive (C:)
8. After a restart setup will continue (You can choose to convert your drive to NTFS during this process)
9. Continue following promts until you are done

Disclaimer:
I have done this on other PCs, but not the IOPENER, so try at your own peril.

SD

11-22-2004 22:36:06

New MessageRE:Win98 and Sandisk. (modified 0 times) KneuB_2
Profile | Email
Wild_Pencil

Thank you for the suggestion on the BIOS signature check, that section is now gone.

StrangeDog

Thank you for the suggestion on the I386 folder and running the WinNT program, I shall play with that and see what happens.

11-28-2004 18:16:39

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