I-Appliance BBS The Official Source for Internet Appliance Upgrades and Mods BBS Main List | Sign In | Sign Up | Search | Help | Linux-Hacker.net Reply to Thread | Printer |

Home / I-Opener Areas / I-Opener Technical Stuff USB speakers + ethernet = not good; solutions?

USB speakers + ethernet = not good; solutions? (modified 0 times) bu11et Profile I have a strong feeling that I've reached the limits of USB, but just to make sure... I have the large Philips USB digital speakers from CC that were available cheap after rebate a while back. Also, I'm using a USB 10/100BaseT Ethernet Adapter. I have them both plugged into a 4 port D-link USB hub. When playing mp3s over a peer-to-peer network with my P-III desktop, there are "skips" when using the digital speakers b/c of the USB ethernet activity. If I use my audio out hack with the line-in on the speakers (no longer digital) it doesn't skip. So, is there anything I can do to give the speakers more "priority"? I realize USB has a limit of 12MBs, but I'd thought I'd ask for suggestions before assuming I've reached the limit. One thought I had: would populating the second USB port on the IO MB and using it instead of a hub help? Not sure if the two USB ports on the IO would also be like a hub or if each onboard port could handle 12MBs simultaneously with the other. One last curiousity: how much bandwidth do the USB digital speakers consume? Thanks, bu11et 12-15-2000 23:24:30

RE:USB speakers + ethernet = not good; solutions? (modified 0 times) YouBecha Profile Interesting, I assume you don't have this problem when you are not pulling music across the ethernet? Playing mp3s across the ethernet doesn't seem to take up that much bandwith...I will have to experiment (the USB part of my USB speakers is wired up to my car stereo) I wonder if some conversion has to take place to send it to the speakers...what bitrate are you using? http://www.geocities.com/mr_bubba_zanetti/ 12-16-2000 06:59:49

RE:USB speakers + ethernet = not good; solutions? (modified 0 times) mp3boombox Profile | Email a 128bit mp3 pulls 17k a second, there for the usb audio must be hoging the bandwith OR your under powerd in the cpu area. the only other option i could think of for you would be to add the second usb port on the IO, via adding resisters and parts needed. But i dont know if 2 ONBOARD usb ports share the same bandwith or if they have different channels?? All in all i'v had no problems with my audio mod's I make. granted its not digital music BUT hay all music becomes analog at some point in time. :) 12-16-2000 13:47:43

RE:USB speakers + ethernet = not good; solutions? (modified 0 times) Programmer Profile the 2nd usb is the second channel on the second device; the main usb is the first channel of the first controller. each channel is capable of an independant 12mbps if you could figure out how, you could have 4 seperate usbs instead of 2.. 12-16-2000 20:44:38

RE:USB speakers + ethernet = not good; solutions? (modified 0 times) bu11et Profile Some replies and answers: the mp3s I've been playing are 128 - 196 bit. Not much of a difference between them. Also, network speeds of 10 and 100 MB/s are about the same sound quality (or lack of it) (really 10 or 12 MB/s b/c of USB limit). The sound only "skips" when there is ethernet activity, skips correspond to the lighting of the activity light on the ethernet adapter. I'm using the stock Rise CPU. If I use my audio out hack and the line-in of the speakers, sound quality is fine (no skips), but not digital obviously. The mp3s are transfered in bursts about every 1 - 2 seconds, which is when the music briefly halts. While a 128 bit mp3 may only need to transfer 17K/s, it is not a continuous transfer, but rather done in a burst every few seconds. I'll probably look into adding the second USB port to get an idea of how much it involves. If I'm correct, only one USB device can use the bus at a time, so if the speakers need continuous data, then any other device using the bus is going to cause some skipping. Is there anyway to measure USB bandwidth usage? Has anyone else used USB speakers w/ a USB ethernet adapter at the same time? Thanks, bu11et 12-16-2000 23:40:27

RE:USB speakers + ethernet = not good; solutions? (modified 0 times) Unit_1 Profile I am almost certain I know the cause of your "SKIPS" in the music, but unfortunetly not a cure. The reason is: There is a known bug in the internal VIA chipset USB implementation. When transfering large blocks of data thru USB it seems that some of it gets corrupted, but the VIA chipset thinks everything is fine and doesn't generate any error messages. So it's not just your music that gets corrupted but any data that is tranfered OUT (Uploaded) of the I-Opener. However, Downloading data INTO the I-O seems to be fine, no corruption. Try this test: Upload a 15-20Meg ZIP file to several other machines on your network. Then run Winzip and under the "Options" pulldown choose "Test". This will do a CRC check of the file and verify the state of its contents. I'm willing to bet that almost every file (over 10Megs) that you upload will be corrupted. I have written to VIA about this but as yet I have heard nothing back. If any of you also suffer from this(and I'll bet everyone does they just don't know it because it only happens on uploads), I suggest you go to www.VIATECH.com and let them know we're darn unhappy with this situation. ~Unit_1 12-19-2000 15:58:32

RE:USB speakers + ethernet = not good; solutions? (modified 0 times) jackinaround Profile | Email would this explain problems playing mp3's from usb cdrw also have usb mouse both through hub. actually what will happen is after about 15 seconds winamp will quit then if I try to access the drive through explorer I get messege saying that the drive is not formatted eventually I will get a mmsystem266 error which is part of the usb sony drivers (I only get this error after the drive quits working and only if I try to use the sony extreme music player. so I'm not real concered about it it is a by product of another problem was thinking of trying a parallel cdrw to see if that works better. also am using Line out mod by mp3boombox so the sound is not runing through usb. 12-19-2000 18:10:54

Sound Chip (modified 0 times) scooter360 Profile | Email Question: I have a freshly moded IO (did it last night) I believe its a ver 4 (I could be mistaken) Has a 266, sw3 and 4 onboard no goop, and IDE connectors in place. My question is if the sound chip is not a yamaha then what is it exactly? I'll have to pop it open to give you the chip number if requested. Please let me know. I prefer email. thanks. 12-20-2000 16:36:34

RE:USB speakers + ethernet = not good; solutions? (modified 0 times) bu11et Profile Unit_1: You stated that the USB problem only occurs when sending data out of the IO through USB. If I download the mp3 to my IO before playing to the digital speakers, everything works fine. It's only when I use the digital speakers in conjunction with the USB ethernet that I have problems. Also, I have a VIA chipset in my desktop and the digital USB speakers work fine with it also, but my NIC is a PCI card. Since I'm at home, my network only consists of my desktop and my IO. When I go back to school on Jan 8, I'll try some tests with the campus network. I'll try using the d-link USB hub w/ my desktop and the digital speakers and the USB ethernet adapter. That should reveal if it's a machine speed issue or strictly USB limitation issue. I don't believe a VIA USB bug is causing my problems since data going out to my speakers is fine when not concurrently using the USB ethernet. If only one device on a USB chain can be accessed at the same time (is this correct?), I don't see how it would be possible to use any other USB device concurrently on the same chain as USB speakers. When some other USB device is used, the speakers are going to be interupted. I think adding the second USB port may be the only solution. Thanks, bu11et 12-24-2000 12:06:39

RE:USB speakers + ethernet = not good; solutions? (modified 0 times) mp3boombox Profile | Email Well i propose this!!! We need to start a USB parts group buy, I'v got all the part type's we need for a second USB port BUT the usb male plug. there are about 9 little smt resisters/caps needed. if someone can find the usb adapter like the one on the io already then we can add a second usb port :). that may also FIX your skipping problem If you guys like this IDEAR post a responce and i'll list the parts needed for the buy. 12-24-2000 16:55:04

RE:USB speakers + ethernet = not good; solutions? (modified 0 times) bu11et Profile I did a search for 'USB' on www.mouser.com and came up with some jacks. There's no pictures though, so I'm not sure if they will fit the board on the IO. bu11et 12-25-2000 14:50:57

RE:USB speakers + ethernet = not good; solutions? (modified 0 times) dr_steve Profile Ethernet activity could well be the cause of the problem; I'd suggest some of the experiments listed above. Note that audio production is a QOS (quality of service) style activity. I doubt the speakers have any (smart) electronics. When the sound software wants to send a block of data to the speakers, it wants to send it *now*. Any activity that delays this transmission (even a few packets through the USB NIC) puts a temporal glitch in the (audio) data stream. In other words, you may well have enough bandwidth on the single USB channel to support both, but it is -immediate access- to the bandwidth that you are missing. If the speakers were smart and could buffer 0.5sec or so, you'd probably never see the problems. One quibble: Please keep your MB and Mb straight -- MB for megabytes and Mb for megabits. For example, your NIC is 10Mb (10/100Mb), not 10MB... -Steve 12-25-2000 20:07:39

Reply to Thread | Printer | All times are PST Powered by UltraBoard v1.62

I-Appliance BBS General - NEWS, Breaking NEWS - linux-hacker.net BBS on CD Questions - User Groups in Your Town - E-Bay, Yahoo Auction LINKS ONLY (MODERATED) - Jokes & Humor - usdtv box I-Opener Areas - I-Opener General Posts - I-Opener Technical Stuff - I-Opener Technical Info Reference (MODERATED) WebSurfer Areas - WebSurfer General Posts - WebSurfer Technical Stuff - WebSurfer Technical Info Reference (MODERATED) Other I-Appliances - Virgin Webplayer - WebPal - MailStation - 3Com Audrey - ThinkNIC / Oracle NIC - Gateway/AOL Connected Touch Pad - Philips/AOL-TV - ACER NT-150 STB - MSN Companion - Compaq IA - Emachines IA - IBM NetVista IA - Intel dot.station - MSNTV2 Network Computers - Fujitsu-Siemens Scovery Linux Net Computers - GallantWeb Server Consoles - Dreamcast - xbox hacking Web Pads - Epods One General Post - Panasonic CF-01 - Fujitsu Stylistic 1200 - Cybiko Thin Clients - Thin Clients DigitalVideoRecorders - DTV Recorders, Replay, TiVo, Etc... - Tivo Hacks Linux - Midori Linux General Board - ITX MotherBoards Single Board Computers - Earth Computers mARMalade Elite Member Area MISC Areas - The Swap Meet WE TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY TRANSACTION HERE AND NO COMMERCIAL POST PERIOD !!! - Wireless Net - Cameras - Robotics - Routers/Gateways - Mattel JuiceBox