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Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead
I am about to drop kick my IO

New MessageBios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Shmali
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( all references are made with the iopener turned over and the top facing away and the bottom facing my stomach lying on the screen) Ok this is my first post , but i have been reading along for a bit. I got really interested when my friend sent me a link about the Iopener and its mods. So i started researching. All in all it looked like it wouldn't be that hard for a simple mod, but it would take some time. But anyway here's the rest of the story. After decidng that the IO would make a great in car addition i managed to win an auction on ebay and got my self a lovely new antique. I went ahead and ordered the imod2(the imod3's where out of stock) a new bios and some other goodies from badflash. Luckily for me it all came on the same day. So i went to work, took a while but after a trip to compusa and some haggling with the manager i managed to 'borrow the necessary bit to remove the hex screw w/pin that holds the stand on. Proceded to gut the Io , there it was the stinking goo all over the nice clean bios. So I went to work scrapping and scratching, flicking and picking at it until i managed to clean the thing up(pain in the a$$). Carefully pried the old bios chip( looked like i ran over it w/my car after all the scrapping. lost a leg to :( ) finished cleaning up the socket and it happened i cracked a side of holder. ( right side next to power plug) Continued to scrape and then this one hurt. While cleaning goo off a single pin i slipped and jabbed the lead to that pin. I examined it closely and it looked like a ding, still enough to make contact. So today i go to plug in the new bios and power it on. Nothing, no screen no heat nada. I've read most of the posts, so i figure ok take it out and seat it back only nat all the way. this did nothing, so i tried putting a small piece of paper under it.. nothing, used a small knife and pried a some pins on the chip, that go where the goo had been, up a little.. still nothing. Getting frustrated i push them back a tad, try cleaning the pins a bit more still no success. Now i know the power cord i am using works because 1 its brand new and 2 my mom has the contraption that when you put it up next to an electrical device/outlet/source it beeps and glows with a light inside. Ran that through the cord and straight over the IO it was beeping and glowing like tonight will(july 4th). So i know i'm getting juice, and i'm pretty sure that all the bios pins are making contact( yes its facing the right direction with the notch in the same place as the original bios. I know alot of you are going to say i should have tried to turn it on before i opened it up (i was a little over eager, sorry). If anybody has an ideas, i would be so grateful. If there is anybody in the southflorida area , who has gotten theirs to work, and wouldn't mind a house call (or i'll come by you) for an afternoon or so. just let me know, i would really hate to have blown it up so early.

Thanks for anything/everything
-Shamli

07-04-2001 17:08:30

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) _wlj_
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Did your I-Opener work at all prior to your opening it up and playing around qith it? Sad to say, but it seems like some of the I-Opener's being sold these days via eBay and the like are actually dead units...
07-05-2001 00:09:41

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Programmer
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Go buy yourself a voltmeter and start tracing out from the power connector. there are some circuits that are alive even when the machine is powered off.. verifying the complete power system would be a good place to start. If you can show that the system has power throughout even with the bios out, you are a good candidate for an oops busted socket. which can be replaced or, with varying degrees of difficulty, repaired (a zip tie around the bios socket has been known to work well for some with a cracked socket).

As you had a gooped bios, it was probably a very bad idea for you to have scraped at all. (you have a v3 BTW)

If you can't verify good power in your system, then you have another problem. you may need to repair part of the power supply subsystem.

Essentially, as you did not verify operation before hand, you have no idea where you stand.

07-05-2001 09:20:00

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Steve
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assuming that you had a working IO when you
got it I'd suspect the socket and the connection to the bios chip. so many people
had problems after trying to degoop. if you
cracked the socket thats even more to susgest
it's the socket connection. if you can't get
it working by checking the socket to bios pin connections I would try replacing the socket.
07-05-2001 09:59:03

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Shmali
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Ok, 'll try the voltometer and see where i end up.. weirdly enough i considered the zip tie the minute i saw/heard it crack, went looking around the house for some of the small ones i knew i had somewhere. I'll let you guys know what happens
07-05-2001 10:57:20

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Shmali
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ok, i got out my voltmeter and started tracing putting the negitive end in the power connector. I got signals on every single bios pin, both the ones below the socket and the ones in the socket. I also traced various leads out to behind the processors and the copper coil, i think, in the upper left area. The only thing left i can think of is putting the bios chip in and seeing if i can get a signal on from the pins that are on the bios chip when its plugged in. but i don't know if this will fry the chip or what (i wouldn't think that 3volts from a voltmeter passed through the regular power input plug area could damage the chip as it would be just a power supply with not enough juice so to speak) any suggestions.
-Shmali
07-05-2001 16:15:15

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) ckbone
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Look.....I scraped epoxy off my V2 and had a hell-of-a-time getting the thing going...did not break the socket though. After tweaking the legs of the chip and numerous trys it started and has been working ever since. By buddy cracked the socket on his, and fixed it ok with a tie-wrap. Don't try checking the BIOS chip legs with an ohm meter...they get fried easily.
07-05-2001 16:47:46

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Shmali
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Ok i have been reading post galore and tinkering with legs to hell(damn things almost broke) I know that everybody says its the bios its not sitting right but i just can't get the dam thing to respond. No matter how i seat the bios, with the cpu in with the cpu out with the ram in with the ram out, it responds kinda like a dead frog. Ya poke it and it just does nothing. I get no response from the power light, i get no heat on the cpu whatsoever. this is truly frustrating. Is the void of blackness normally cause by a missing bios, or shouldn't the system beep or something. I just get nothing.

-mentally and physically frustrated
-Shmali

07-05-2001 21:12:39

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Shmali
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in a small addendum, i have tried prying the bios sockets pins out a bit to provied for a better connection and it still gave no response.
-shmali
07-05-2001 22:19:38

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Ragnar
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Yes the power light should come on even without the bios in. There are several places to check the voltage. First place is the check for the 19 volts coming into the machine. The easiest way is to check the power brick. Plug it in and check the connector with the probes. You should read + or - 19V. Q16 is another place. Place the red probe on pin 3 of q16 and the black probe onto ground. The convient place is the silver border around the board. If I recall correctly it should be 3.3V. Pin 3 of U16 should read 2.5V. Voltage across resistor 160/161 should also read 3.3V. My two i-openers are up and running stable at 450Mhz and are closed so this info is from memory. Hang in there, going from point A to point B in hacking is not a straight line. Oh, and by the way, don't check for voltalge with the processor plugged in. That way at least you won't add to the problem.
07-06-2001 06:59:30

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Ragnar
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Oh, and also press the reset button every time you try to power up. That have saved me a LOT of heartbreak.
07-06-2001 07:02:08

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Shmali
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ok here are the readings, i got 27mV across u16, 22mV across q16, 13.5mV on the left of r160 and -90.2mV on the right side, the serial port next to the ram game me a 377mV reading and as i was going to unplug it something cracked (power supply movd to much) and i redid all the readings. Everything dropped to -0.0 on the meter expect the right side of r160 it was at -97.2 mV. did i just fry the board or does it need to cool down. What are my possible routes to fixing this thing now.
-Shmali
07-06-2001 15:18:57

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) *SF*
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Do You See 19VDC @ The Power Plug ???
07-06-2001 15:31:54

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Ragnar
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That sounds like some readings I got before I successfully modded my V1. It almost sounds like the person before you had tried, but failed to modify it. There is a thread by one of the big dogs, Linux-guru, Las_vegas, badflash, etc., about tracing the power supply route, but I haven't relocated it yet. First test is the mosfet immediately to the right of the power connector. On either of the two legs you should read ~19V. I don't remember what you test next. But reading mvs when you should be reading volts does tell you something. Somewhere along the power supply route something is either not connected or burnt out. If the person who had it before you thought he had a V1 then he may have started with linux-guru's or kudzu's hack to enable split plane voltage. If he thought he had a V3 then he would have done the resistor mod. Check the moderated technical section to see how the mod's are done. That may give you a clue to finding where the voltage is failing.
07-06-2001 15:47:19

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Shmali
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Yes, the power plug reads 19v Dc its fine, the person before me(from ebay a company that deals with surplus inventory buying) claims that it was never used or at least not by anyone you might find on this board. When i opened it up everything was as it would be if shipped from the company. The void seal not broken both silver outside and the white sticker over the screw on the RF shield. The inside had never been touched not a scratch/mark on anything visible. I'll try looking for the post about tracing the power supply. If you find it before i do, i would appreciate a link. But i'll let you guys know what happens.

-Shmali

07-06-2001 18:03:13

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Linuxguru
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Shmali: To narrow down the options, post your CPU type (WinChip or Rise), audio chip type (Yamha?), whether switch SW4 is present, and if the IDE header pins are clipped.

If the CPU was a WinChip and your IDE header was intact, it was probably unwise for you to have degooped the BIOS unless the unit had phoned home in late 2000. You should have tried the QNX drive image trick with Dolly first (search on this site for details).

Anyway, my guess is that the BIOS socket is hosed, and/or the BIOS chip may have been zapped by static.

Replacing the socket is not for the faint of heart. There is no royal road to electronics skill - you need years of practice and understanding, with many failures along the way, to attempt these kinds of hacks successfully. If you had that experience, you would not have tried degooping the BIOS lightly. This is not to dissuade or discourage you - but just to make you understand the scope of the technical difficulties in this area.

For a start, when you measure voltages, most often you reference it to ground (GND on the schematics). Normally, the black probe is placed on a well-known ground location and the red probe is placed on the point of interest to make the measurement.

A well-known ground location on the I-Opener is on the metal standoffs on which the heatsink is mounted. You can place the black probe on any one of those.

Are R60/R61 populated? If so, the voltages on Q16 are irrelvant. If R60/R61 are not populated, measure the voltages on all three pins of Q16 (with the black probe on ground, and the red probe on each pin of Q16) and post it here.

Don't even try to probe the voltages on any signal pin - that includes virtually every pin on the BIOS chip. There's really no useful information to be gained from the DC voltages on signal nets, and you can very easily end up destroying the I/O buffers on these chips.

To repeat, if you don't know what you are doing, don't do it!

07-07-2001 23:06:26

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Shmali
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ok, it is a winchip (W9942p) , the ide headers are NOT clipped. Thew sound chip is the yamaha(YMF715E-S), R60/R61 are populated. Also, I don't know if I came off sounding like a complete beginner, but i'm not that hopeless. I have been involved with computers(building, repairing, custom jobs and stuff) for 6-7 years now. While i know that i do not know everything, i do know that i know enough. I was a little careless when i started this project(habbit of nature, can't control it) i was overly eager and put myself ahead of where i should have been. Anyhow , they say you learn from your mistakes. That is what experience is all about. As such i have learned to try to control my eagerness. And while i do not know everything, i am hoping that there are others out their that know more than me who can share for now. As i am continually adding to what i do know. If this Io can be saved, ok great, what next should i do. If my only hope is wizzitronics, fine. if its oly good for parts not a problem. this project goes on the side. I am just trying to figure out my choices. thanks for anything and everything that you guys can help me with.

-Shmali

07-08-2001 15:16:05

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Shmali
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small addendum, sw4 is not present as far as i can see, but sw3 is. sw1 is empty as well.

-shmali

07-08-2001 15:28:53

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Linuxguru
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OK, you've got a V2/V3. Check the voltage on either side of R60 or R61. If you've got 3.3~3.5v , the power supply is fine.

As mentioned earlier, the most probable cause of failure is a zapped BIOS chip and/or poor contact at the BIOS socket.

The best course of action is to have the socket professionally replaced.

07-09-2001 10:52:17

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Shmali
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ok the voltage reads 0.0 on both sides of r60/r61. which probably means the power supply is blown. Any other recommendations or is it time for ###########/parts

-shmali

07-09-2001 14:47:52

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Linuxguru
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Remove the CPU, connect the AC adapter, power on and measure the voltage at R60 again. If it's still 0, the power supply circuitry is hosed. If it's ~3.3v, the power supply circuitry may be OK, but your CPU may be dead (Vcore shorted to ground - this can happen if the CPU overheated excessively without the heat sink, though I haven't seen it happen on a WinChip).
07-09-2001 16:30:20

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Curious
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I also have a dead IO, but mine has a Rise 266 and R60 & R61 are not populated. I check the voltages at Q16, the pin closest to the CPU was 24mV and continued to rise to approx. 60mV, the center pin was .8 mV and the last pin was 0. I check Q30 and the left pin(closest to the A/C)input was 18V, the center pin was .500mV and dropping and the last pin was ~1.2mV and also fluctuating. Any help would be appreciated.
07-10-2001 18:59:43

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Shmali
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Ok I plugged in, powered on(if it did i don't know) and checked the voltage at R60 (w/out cpu in) it read 0 still. So i am lead to believe that the power supply is indeed hosed. My question now is what options do i have. How feesible is it to replace this circiutry or am i better of using it as parts.

-Shmali

07-13-2001 21:08:19

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Shmali
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If anybody still has any ideas about what can be done i'd appreciate it a lot.

-thanks
shmali

07-22-2001 21:05:31

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Programmer
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Attempt to locate which element of the power subsystem is gone and replace it.
07-23-2001 05:33:17

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Ragnar
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Shmali, Curious
Any luck so far?, how about an update.
07-26-2001 07:11:42

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Ragnar
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Shmali,
I finally found the thread that I mentioned earlier. The title is "NO POWER AT ALL!" by Las_Vegas. Use the search function, mark all words, check I-opener technical stuff and it should take you straight to it. Hope you haven't given up yet.
07-26-2001 08:39:40

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Shmali
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well i just got the link for the power trace thread so i'll give that a shot this weekend. I started back up working a few weeks ago so i haven't had much time to tinker with the IO. hopefully this weekend though. I'll let you guys know what happens.

-Shmali

07-27-2001 16:35:55

New MessageRE:Bios, goop, blank screen. should i have just burned my money instead (modified 0 times) Shmali
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ok, I've followed the traces and get nothing. I mean i try to trace and i get sparadic readings. I don't know if i'm following the right leads but i give up now. i know it didn't give such a great description. But i'm almost ready to put this up on ebay. If anybody has anything else they want to suggest pease do. Otherwise expect to see it in auction soon.

-Shmali

08-06-2001 19:42:34

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