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TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile Part I, Actual Working TFT Screen, was getting too long. So I started this new one. Please Read Part I thoroughly, first. Thank you. I think I found MA[5:3]. On the lower left corner of the Trident Chip near AF26, go south past the first row of chips and find R168, R171, R180. They are populated with 4.7Kohm resistors, what figure 7.1 describes for logic high. R169, R170, R178, R179 are all empty. I cannot verify the exact pin these match on the Trident Chip until KnueB gets that pic (not like I'm trying to rush you KnueB :) According to Fig 7.1, these resistors help describe the screen type (TFT or DTSN). If we solve this, we'll be one step closer to getting the TFT working :) Working on tracking down that JLVDS switch. According to page 7-20 on the Figure, the SODIMM connector, Pin 133 is the switch. But from looking at Pin 133, SODIMM CON9, on the mobo, goes nowhere. Or maybe its grounded. Need pic of connector removed :) I would love to this, but I have one mobo, and its still working. If anyone will donate a DOA mobo, I will help KnueB with getting pics of stripped mobo. Also, thinking about what Finatronics said about how bios is setup for a mobo. If it IS like that, then a bios from ANY other board would not work. We'd have to get Wild Pencil to fix bios 5.x with a TFT patch. 04-17-2002 16:52:29

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) *SF* Profile Part 1, Actual Working TFT Screen 04-17-2002 16:59:41

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile Oh, didn't even think about that. Tanks SF :) 04-17-2002 17:19:18

RE:TFT Screen (modified 1 times) Finatronics Profile Kneu_b2 (sp?) Hehehe, sorry, the nearby resistors and capacitors will be the first thing to fall off... You might want to take a few good pictures of the board un-desoldered so you know which pads are populated and which were never used. Linux BIOS!! I can't believe this... I've thought about the idea so many times, I don't know why I never did a search for "Linux BIOS". I'm sure it would have shown up. I'll have to look into this more ;) Eric 04-17-2002 18:13:13

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) oldman Profile | Email everybody: ok, my VIA VT82C8601 is not exactly the same as our great Cyberblade i7. does anyone know what a TMDS transmitter is? it is mentioned on the last page of the VT8501 spec sheet related to tft. still having fun, oldman 04-17-2002 19:52:04

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) *SF* Profile TMDS = Transition Minimized Differential Signaling sounds Good to Me !!! http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?p=dict&String=exact&Acronym=TMDS 04-17-2002 20:05:51

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) *SF* Profile transition minimized differential signaling (TMDS) http://www.dell.com/us/en/gen/topics/vectors_2000-dvi.htm 04-17-2002 20:23:53

Progress - or Lack Thereof :-) (modified 0 times) KneuB_2 Profile | Email Today’s lunch Hour The camera is not capable of getting in close enough by it's self to identify the various resistors etc. so I pointed it through the eye piece of the microscope. It took a while to figure out how to focus it that way, and even when I got it to work it was hit and miss. But I did succeed in getting enough photos around the outer edge of the cyberblade chip that I can piece them together to make one photo of that area of the board (without the cyberblade chip it's self). Unfortunately that makes for one really BIG file, way to big to be practical. I can't seem to get to the middle of the road here, I've got to find another approach for taking the photos. Tomorrows Lunch hour Apply Heat! I have several pieces of angle iron to lay over the little stuff as a heat shield in hopes that they will stay put for awhile. I'll use that approach to remove anything big enough to hide a trace. Since that should remove all of the taller components I should be able to put it on the scanner and remain within it's depth of vision, thus solving the photo problem as well. I shall take some big tweezers, keep the gun moving and lift gently to avoid smearing the solder (thank you for the tips BubbaDog56) Ooops I know I should not have bid on this, especially considering how much time I've wasted trying to find specs for other TFT screens without success. But now that I've won does anybody have any idea how to figure out the pinouts for it? I'll concentrate on getting the board stripped and making the photos available, but in the mean time if anybody has any suggestions on finding the pinouts I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on it. 04-17-2002 22:57:42

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) Finatronics Profile Most scanners these days have a depth of at least half an inch which is probably enough for the MoBo... I've taken some scans of PC boards, and while it does get fuzzy farther away, it's usually still legible. I actually use my scanner as a "microsope" for chips and such that I can't read, scanning at 1200dpi. LCD displays... You've checked EIO, I assume... If you know the manufacturer and a part number, you can usually find _something_ out about the display. For instance, I was looking for info about the Sharp LM64P70 (grayscale) a few years ago, and discovered from an embedded 486's manual that the 'P70 is the same pinout as the 'P80 which I was able to find. You can usually find a table of pinouts in the manuals for embedded x86 display controllers... /http://www.rtdusa.com/appnote/108_lcd.htm /http://www.rtdusa.com/panels.htm /http://www.eio.com/datashet.htm /http://www.eio.com/pinfnctn.htm I just grabbed these links from my bookmarks without looking over them very thoroughly (was a few months since I used them...), but I think there's some info in there. Eric 04-18-2002 00:03:17

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile Yea, I used my scanner (HP 48bit 2400 optical) to scan the back side, 15 gig JPEG file. I tried to scan the front, but to keep size down, equal to the back, it lost focus being 1/2 inch up because of components. A good 36bit 600 or 1200 optical dpi should do good if you have one available. to keep the file small, I suggest scanning 1/2 to 1 inch square around the Northbridge area. Thank you KnueB for the time and work your doing to get this data. Oldman, TMDS seems to be Digital Panal connector. This is what I gathered from looking over the specs. You need the specs for the Cyberblade i7, not the one for the VT5601 from VIA. The CB has a lot more information. I looked, but now I can't find the spec. Its around on this BBS somewhere, maybe someone else has it bookmarked? I printed it off, all 220 pages. The JLVDS switch is an output switch TO the SODIMM. Could be for shared video memmory. The Power-Up Config, Fig 7.1 CBi7 spec., shows what looks like a switch. ie 000 = tft 1024x768x18bit. Assuming that the display in the I opener powers up at 600x800x16bit same as usually viewed, gives 110. That means there are two 4.7Kohm resistors and one empty. These are MA5, MA4, then MA3 (110). Getting the Pic will reveal which 4.7k's we need to swap to get 010, thus removing one chip for MA5, giving us 800x600x18bit TFT. Then.... Connecting N2 from the CB chip to Pin133 SODIMM gives DTSN signal, H5 from CB chip to Pin133 gives TFT. This is all I have found so far for the hardware mod for TFT. One thing I haven't figured out yet. The specs give a 44 pin connector for the DTSN connecter, 8 aren't used (leaving 36), 5 are ground (leaving 32, remember you need one of these 5 for ground). The connector on the IO Mobo is 30 pin. Is this 16 vs 18 bit? Or am I missing something. We are missing two pins. Thanks 04-18-2002 15:26:54

Progress - & lack thereof (modified 0 times) KneuB_2 Profile | Email turbowsr We are missing two pins, two shades of blue see programmers comments about a year back. They are supposedly accessible from test points on the back side (per codeman). Identifying them is part of the reason for stripping this board. Finatronics Thank you for the links, I'll go through them after I get this board stripped and photos posted. Todays Lunch Hour The cyberblade chip is OFF! AND nothing got burned! It wasn't no 30 to 45 second job though, 20 minutes with a black and decker paint stripper gun. Enough of the complaining, it worked great. Un-fortunatly the white paint pad is too thick in the areas that we need to see. Most white areas on the board I can follow the traces through the white paint just by changing the light angle, but not where we need to see, it's to thick. Tomorrows Lunch Break As I recall, someone said they were successfull at removing the white paint without damaging the traces with a wire brush on a dremmel tool. I'll attempt that if no-one has a better approach. I'm all ears here! 04-18-2002 18:27:25

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) Finatronics Profile KneuB_2, do you have a link to that post? I thought I remembered them saying they had it all working EXCEPT for the two shades of blue... If that's true, that'd mean the software part is already taken care of... so I must remember wrong... About paint... Could you try things like Acetone or Paint Thinner? Maybe you should scan it before doing that, in case any of the white stuff has any particular meaning that will be helpful in the future...? Eric 04-18-2002 19:05:50

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile KnueB, I thought that was the reason for 2 missing pins, but I thought I'd get confirmation. A small amount of stripper or thinner may work, I don't have any handy right now to try. Or Acetate. A brass brush may work, but it may case scratches that may be confused with traces if view at certain angles. Darn it. We used a chemical to remove sealant[humiseal](sp)(to protect boards from moisture), I can't remember the name. It was produced by the Signal Chemical company (now part of Honeywell). 04-18-2002 19:32:48

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile Conformal Coat Remover :) http://shop.store.yahoo.com/was/concoatrempe1.html 04-18-2002 20:05:31

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) KneuB_2 Profile | Email Finatronics The discussion about the two missing "BLUE" pins is in the discussions between codeman and programmer about half way down the thread. Programmer did mention that the missing two pins would mean 64 shades of blue instead of 256. turbowsr That is a pricy little pen, I wonder if the manufacturer has a samples link I've got some paint stripper (or at least I used to, I'll go look after this post) and I'll see what other nasty chemicals there are around the house to through at it tomorrow (I just want to avoid anything that will eat the traces). I sure hope this works because it's going to drive me nuts all week end since I'm limited to lunch hours. 04-18-2002 21:46:19

They have a SAMPLE Link ! (modified 0 times) KneuB_2 Profile | Email My Oh My lookie here .... a sample link And the MSDS Data Sheet. 04-18-2002 22:17:44

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) BubbaDog56 Profile KneuB_2, The white silkscreen designators on the board are a heat cured epoxy ink, tough stuff to get off once cured. A 'very' light touch with a wire wheel dremel should work, practice first in an area you don't care about.... B'Dog 04-19-2002 04:52:12

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) djimmah Profile Just browsing the web for MVP4 chipsets with Award bios, I stumbled across Advantech and their discontinued PCA-6752F. It looks to be exactly the same specs as the iopener. They have bios and driver and pinout files. They also have lists of supported LCDs. http://eservice.advantech.com.tw/eservice/start.swe?SWEView=All+SR+List+View+(eSupport)+(Unregister)&SWECmd=GotoView&SWECount=2 is the service page. I had to do several searches to get all the files. Data sheets, multiple bios files (with .pdf files with bios screen pictures with a TFT setting) I am going to hot flash a bios on an extra chip and see if it goes. 04-19-2002 18:48:21

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile Tryed to flash Epox bios. Award Flash warned that the Bios did not match the mobo ID. So this tells me that Award has in place security measures. I tried to flash MPV4 Epox onto an FIC-2013, MVP3 mobo. The only diff. is integrated Video. I am sure that this will be the case anytime a MVP4 bios is flashed on a mobo without MVP4. So I guess someone with the MVP4 chipset mobo flash the bios, then install on the IO. I assume that now means we can't flash any laptop bios'either. This is just using a disk and mobo. If some one has an eeprom burner, they may be able to get this done. I have also found that most PC mobo manufacture's used a DIP style bios. I saw somewhere that someone had found a DIP to PLCC converter. Of course this is using Award flash. Are there any free/Open source bios flashers? 04-19-2002 19:23:10

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) Finatronics Profile Most BIOS flashers' warnings are just that... warnings. You can usually tell it to go through with the update anyhow. Try it ;) The main reason they say that is to warn you that if you burn the wrong BIOS to a computer, it may not boot again (and you'll have to go to BadFlash to get a new one). If you feel OK with removing the BIOS while the computer's on, I'd recommend using a different chip. Just in case it doesn't boot, you'll have a working one still around... Oh wait, you have that double-decker bios switcher thingamajig anyhow.... I do have an EEPROM programmer, and I also made a PLCC-DIP converter (for the EEPROM programmer, but it would work the same anywhere). If you want me to burn something, I'd be happy to. Just send me the binary file you want burnt, a chip, and postage for me to send it back to you and I can do it. (If you toss in a buck or two chances are much higher that I'll get to it quickly... I'm rather busy these days). I don't have these chips lying around :( If you want me to just burn and test something here, I'd do that too, but be warned that _school and work take priority (could take me a while to get to it)_. Telling me exactly what you want me to do would make me more likely to get around to it, so I don't have to spend a ton of time troubleshooting and looking around trying to make it work. I don't plan on going TFT with my IO, unless I manage to find a TFT display for less than $5-$10. I don't really have reason to. I'd be MUCH happier with a touchscreen (if it comes down to choosing what to spend money/time on). On the other hand, there are a few bad pixels on my screen, maybe whent that gets on my nerves, I'll replace it with TFT (assuming you get it working by then) ;) You can email me if you need me to burn something... Oh, By the way... I'm not sure whether the sound chip is in the BIOS on the IO (mine's disconnected at the moment), but don't forget that there's alot more to the BIOS than just the North and South bridges... The most obvious I can think of is the sound chip (which is different on different IOs, too!), also laptops' PCMCIA slots... a3453453452@yahoo.com Eric 04-19-2002 20:17:46

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile Nope, this isn't the "if your continue...." warning. At the Flash part of the program, it stops and goes back to A:\ The warning says something to the effect that the file being burned does not match the chipset. I tried UNIFLASH, but it is finicky with VIA chipsets, and it did not like mine either. At this point, I'm not really concerned with sound, or some other devices. I will be happy to see the bios POST screen. Did you (finatronics) read the 4Mbit chip section, I posted about the Bios savior also. It is what I have been using during flashing. The funny thing is, I degooped my socket and the system died, so I thought maybe I broke something. I put in the Bios Savior, plugged my old bios chip in, it booted and all works now. I get to see the IO startup all the time now :) Will be starting the other Hacks soon. Also, to those interested, I have found many 10.4" TFT Active Matrix screens on Ebay for $30 +/-. They seem mostly for P75+ IBM laptops. Touch screens on the cheap are hard to find. I have found some touch screen addons on Ebay for $50, but they are for 15-17" monitors. They are either serial port or USB. I also tried an Acorp bios. 04-19-2002 21:17:51

:-( (modified 1 times) KneuB_2 Profile | Email TODAYS LUNCH HOUR I through every nasty chemical I could find at it, everything from white-out thinner to goof-off paint stripper, plus, acetone and nail polish remover. Nothing even phased it. That white epoxy ink is pretty tough stuff. However, a review of all the chemicals in the various bottles did not turn up "Tetrahydrofuran", the primary ingredient in the conformal coating remover posted above. turbowsr Did you ever successfully use the above conformal coating remover to remove a heat cured epoxy ink? I was not able to find anything in the associated literature specifically claiming to be able to remove this kind of stuff. But if you have used it successfully I'll order a pen (or a sample ) and find out if my grandmother was just teasing me about patience being a virtue. Otherwise I think I'll start dremmel practice on the four white pads over the vacant RAM traces, I doubt if anyone would care if those inadvertently disappeared, or at least not the first three. BTW: White-Out thinner will quickly remove the water proof laser printer inks from view foils, a good candidate for removing the trace mask for those looking into printing the trace mask directly onto the copper clad board. (there are two threads on the subject, the second is a continuation of the first, it would appear, thus the two links in the previous sentence) 04-19-2002 23:48:06

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) 02U2 Profile About as nasty as one can get,Methylene chloride. One quick application should do it! Don't leave it on too long! CAUTION! READ THIS Test on a corner of the pcb first to see how quickly it softens the PCB laminate epoxy! 04-20-2002 05:33:51

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) 02U2 Profile Read this too before using!!! http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/86114_46.html? 04-20-2002 05:38:59

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) djimmah Profile I thought that since Advantech produces development hardware that the bios for their boards would not be crippled with disabled features. I am having a small setback testing the bios. My Sandisk isn't cooperating and I am running XP on the hard drive. Has anyone flashed a bios from XP? I am a bit nervous, since I have never tried it. I know XP doesn't have a real dos mode and haven't seen a flasher for XP. I will try again today or tomorrow. Any XP flashing tips would be appreciated. 04-20-2002 06:09:42

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) YouBecha Profile I am very slightly off topic here, but does anyone know a good source to get connectors and cables and tech info for lcd screens (don't say earthlink or eio). I tried hirose but it isn't that (off topic because it isn't an iopener screen) http://www.geocities.com/mr_bubba_zanetti/ 04-20-2002 06:59:54

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile KnueB, I thot is worked. But I mostly worked on Silicon based boards, and a solder iron burned the paint off easy. It won't work on a regular PCB. A friend of mine had be work on her PC. Said bad modem, well after some fiddling, I asked about Lightening. YES it was struck. The mobo worked fine, cept the PCI slots were dead. This Soyo SY-5EM has 512K L2 Cache. Thought hmmmm, might be able to use that. But I don't have a heat gun. hmmmmm. IDEA!!!! Turned the oven on, turned it to 500F, put the mobo upsidedown on a wire rack. Now I have a bare board and several SMT parts, including the L2 Cache and Tag Ram chips. Forgot to remove CMOS battery. BOOM!! hehe :) Caps also went snap. But the mobo is only slightly blistered, and all traces visible. Paint still there tho. Total time, 15 min. It has an ETEQ chipset, now owned by VIA and similar to the Trident chip, came right off. Just a thought on getting parts off. I also removed often and shook or removed parts off, and have to watch plastic parts. But was faster, and removed more parts at home. Just an idea and my .02 Removing paint is another project. Now I work on getting L2 (or L3 :) cache working. hmmm I have an old EISA VGA card, and need a VGA male :) I also removed the BIOS this way, its DIP, but may be able to build adapter with it. If anyone gets any ideas, I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY FIRES CAUSED. DON'T DO THIS AT HOME, go to the neighbors :) 04-20-2002 13:40:03

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) 02U2 Profile May even add a unique flavor to your next baked turkey or ham... 04-20-2002 21:14:32

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) Finatronics Profile I keep seeing TFTs on ebay, but they all seem to be 640x480! What a waste... :/ 04-21-2002 14:23:00

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile Do a search for "TFT screen" http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&ht=1&query=tft+screen Or are meaning just the 10.4" screens? 04-21-2002 17:08:47

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) Finatronics Profile sorry, yeah... I meant 10.4in. What were you planning on doing? Were you going to remove the inner "frame" and put a bigger display in? I'm just not sure what the benefit of a 10.4in TFT would be if you're sacraficing desktop space... Eric 04-21-2002 18:06:08

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile Well, this is a side project of the reason I'm looking to hook up TFT. I also have a Fujitsu Pen tablet with DTSN. These come with either DTSN or TFT. I'm using this as a MP3 player for my Suburban. Works great, but DTSN is hard to see. While searching I found IO, and thought, I am bored and need a good brain teaser. The IO will make a good Win98lite or Mandrake websurfer, minor use PC. My first goal is to get the TFT working. Then a larger screen. Not all of us have eyes for the little 10.4" one's :) As far as a 10.4" TFT Active Matrix, I've found that there are a few on ebay, mainly IBM. Try HMRLAUSA, I bought a touchscreen 8" B&W (didn't notice B&W, until after my bid), and had good experience with them. Getting a larger screen in the IO? I dunno. I have a V3, a 12.5" will fit in place of the screen and removing the light grey panel. Also, I have found touchscreens for $50 for 15" to 17" monitors. 04-21-2002 20:13:46

Nasty Stuff - Try, Next (modified 1 times) KneuB_2 Profile | Email O2U2 Those links were very informative. I ran out and purchased a quart can containing the Methylene chloride you mentioned, before I read the links you supplied. I went back to try and find some chemical resistive gloves. Of the half dozen or so different varieties of chemical resistive gloves that I found, not one was willing to claim even the slightest ability to resist this stuff. The label on the can reads "opening this can WILL expose you to Methylene chloride". Ignoring the toxicity levels, and all the other nasty capabilities it has and just note it's abilities for attacking the nerve system, I am very leary of opening this can at all let alone in an office environment. I'm thinking I might like to experiment with the dremel tool first. However, I do thank you for pointing this stuff out in the manner that you did. Those links have influenced how I shall view warning labels in the future. I do not believe I would have taken the time to try and comprehend the significance of the warning label, nor developed the respect for this stuff that I now hold, had you merely suggested that I try a little JASCO paint & epoxy stripper. 04-21-2002 22:35:41

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) Wild_Pencil Profile | Email Just a tip... If you're trying BIOS code from other machines, you really should run MODBIN to give some "sane" Setup/BIOS Defaults. (Just in case the CMOS contents aren't accepted by the test-BIOS. Set "Halt on No Errors", and try to enable Simultaneous-Display mode. It's very helpful to hook up a VGA monitor to CN10.. that way, if the LCD doesn't work and Simultaneous-Display is enabled, you'll be able to see something useful. Always keep a known-good BIOS chip on standby, so you can use the IOpener if a BIOS fails. About the Advantech BIOS... it often (not always) works without modification (using VGA monitor on CN10) if you do this procedure: 1. Remove CMOS Battery for a minute, then re-insert Battery. (Just wanna clear the CMOS out) 2. Boot with IOpener BIOS, let it re-initialize CMOS. DO NOT Manual-Adjust any BIOS Settings. 3. Hot-swap BIOS chip with the Advantech BIOS. 4. Reboot. (Soft-Reboot, or Reset Button preferred) 5. Watch the VGA monitor. Repeatedly Press <DEL> slowly, to try and get into BIOS Setup Screen. 6. At this point, you should be able to go to "Integrated Peripherals" and set the Video accordingly. You DEFINITELY want to turn "Simultaneous" on -- otherwise, when you reboot, you'll see nothing on the VGA monitor, and you'll be at the mercy of guessing if the LCD will work. Now, it's important to note that the Hybrid-BIOS I built uses IOpener Code for the Video Initialization. This was done to get DSTN operational. (I never got the plain Advantech BIOS to display on the IOpener's DSTN). It's very likely that using the Hybrid will cause TFT to fail because it has IOpener-Specific code; and it may be why we never got a fully operational TFT working yet... Hopefully with this "Pure Advantech" procedure, you'll have better luck getting TFT working. -WP 04-22-2002 12:15:31

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile Thanks WP. I have the Advantech BIOS. But, I have tried Award V7.01,7.88, 8.0 Bios flash programs. The v8.0 WILL NOT flash incorrect bios. The others use a switch. I have also used Uniflash. Every one will program until 20100-20500 then hangs. Uniflash won't hang but never flash's error free. I am using a FIC-2013 to flash the chip. Any tips here would be appriciated. KnueB, This may help. I scanned the back side of the IO mobo. I then went into Paint shop Pro, and made a negative, then went into color adjustments and fooled around until I got close to a B&W schematic. I then took it down to 2 colors. Then I mirrored the pic so that it can be overlaid over the top view. If the same could be done with the topside, both printed on transparency. Would be nice to take to a print shop and have it done poster size. :) I printed off on my Photo Printer, only at 8x10. I could break the pic down to 12 individual sections and print those off. Also, on-screen, with the B&W pic, change the color of one(ie RED) line and, whala!, just trace that one line. The depth I scanned my pic, I can see each trace individually, but its about 80MB open. By the time we are done, we'll be able to build our own mobo from scratch :) Has anyone confirmed or at least a good educational guess what CN11 does. I have heard a few theories. Like sound, but 30 pins for sound? 04-22-2002 17:09:56

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) Glitch Profile turbowsr: If you are serious about a poster size print I might be able to help out. I have a large format printer (unfortunately it is only 24" wide, sticker shock discouraged me from buying a bigger one <g>). I've done 24"x32" color prints of a few of my motherboards and they turned out great. Glitch Electronics run on smoke, if you let the smoke out they won't work 04-22-2002 18:05:52

Progress - NOT - Lack thereof (modified 0 times) KneuB_2 Profile | Email Today’s Lunch hour Started with a nylon brush on the dremel .... Zero effect. Tried a steel brush on the dremel. As I moved it around it appeared like I was burning the white epoxy instead of removing it. Once it started getting pretty black I put it under the microscope. The black, whatever it was, was being deposited on the epoxy from the wire brush. The brush was not new and the black stuff was left over from whatever I had used it for the last time. The black stuff was not visible on the brush until I put it under the scope. The black stuff seemed to act as a lubricant and the steel brush had no effect on the epoxy. Switched over to a sanding disk on the dremel. At high speed with a very quick and very light touch the epoxy came off .... as did the traces and part of the mother board. Fortunately I was practicing on one of the RAM pads. On the slowest speed with a very gentile and very fast touch, enough of the traces remained that they were able to be followed, but it was just to touchy to try it on the cyberblade pad. I decided to try the Methylene chloride. Took the board home and let it soak in the stuff while I did some lawn work (there was a really stiff wind to disperse the vapors, and I did it out of doors). About 40 minutes later I washed it off .... Zero effect. Now if we could just get Chrysler to use this on there cars Tomorrows Lunch It is an errand day. I won't get a chance to work on it but I'll pick up a clean wire brush, see if I can find a finer grit sanding disk as that may slow it down enough that I could control it safely. I'll also pick up some 600 grit wet and dry sand paper as hand sanding it may be a viable option. turbowsr Glitch I'm all for making a poster of this thing. There are a couple of learning curve marks on this thing now, but so far they are minor. I'm the patient type and dogged as well. I'll figure it out and keep it more or less pretty to boot (I hope). 04-22-2002 23:41:30

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile Glitch, email me at yahoo dot com. :) 24" is about 3x. We should be able to see that! KnueB, I tried with a steel brush also on my drimal, on that oven baked board, and it did the same thing you said. Its the epoxy burning, I thing. Everyone (or at least those that care :) I traced lines from CN11, they all seem to go to traces that just end. Not really going anywhere, not even through the board. Same with CN25, which has lines to the little IC area around the CF slot area. I haven't traced all the CN11 traces. If they area all unused, we could use this area to attach a DVI or TFT connector for all 24 bits. 04-23-2002 15:19:50

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) Finatronics Profile I just had a stroke of genious! What about scraping/slicing under the epoxy with a razor blade? Don't worry about a few little mistakes in places that are easy to see and find... We all have MoBo's too, so I'm sure someone else could get a good scan of whatever area you damage and cut'n'paste (try to keep it on the back, since it'd be easy to scan even on a board with all parts attached). 04-23-2002 20:01:46

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) Wild_Pencil Profile | Email If you're good with the razor blade, that might work. I've had very good success at exposing the copper with a dremel and a wet-sanding disc. (The flexible black sandpaper disc, not one of those rigid, solid pumice-stones). The trick I use is to lubricate the area with a few drops of light oil.. then just lightly scrub across the area with the dremel. It usually doesn't take more than 5 passes to get it down to the copper. I had to do this to repair a damaged trace to the BIOS Socket.. hopefully the Cyberblade's traces aren't much thinner than those. -WP 04-24-2002 10:13:53

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile Something interesting but not all I opener related. I recently bought an ECS P6STP-FN. http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs.com.tw/products/p6stpfn.htm This mobo has everything built in like the IO board, but with a socket 370 and SIS 630 chipset. TV out, LCD hookup. Everything we are trying to hack on the $99 IO this board already has. I bought this mobo for $15, the guy had more, but now all seem to be gone. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2016761315 This mobo is smaller than the IO's, no Sandisk, no BIOS problem. Would be a good replacement for the IO mobo, or a whole other project. I am using an old SCSI CD-rom case for this. The only problem so far seems that none of the cables except for IDE, Floppy, Modem are included. Another problem, these are extremly hard to find. I just happened across this one. I just thought that if anyone could find any, this may be an alternative to the hard work we are doing to get the IO to behave and do as I say :) I plan on using a VIA C3 processor, with that and a little memmory, its about $70. Faster more reliable. Just my .02 04-24-2002 15:54:35

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) GWIZAH Profile | Email Hmmm, It appears the ECS P6STP-FN isn't available on Ebay...That is true. BUT...The ECS P6STP-FL is and the only real difference is that the FL has 2 Pci slots, rather than 1. There are a whole bunch and they are all around $35.00. I guess the extra PCI slot is worth the extra $20? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2018289204 We now return you yo your regularly scheduled TFT posts... 04-24-2002 18:27:41

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) Finatronics Profile Very promising except for three things: * " * NO LAN Onboard" * I didn't see mention of LCD support or a connector anywhere * No onboard CF slot (I know about IDE CF adapters, but they're not as fun to install) and... Many of us are only playing with the IO for the sake of hacking! The side benefit for me is that it'll be a useful "tool" around the workshop when I'm finished. Eric 04-24-2002 20:01:38

Photo's at 11:00 (tomorrow) (modified 0 times) KneuB_2 Profile | Email Today’s Lunch Hand sanded the white pad off with 400 grit wet and dry sandpaper, it worked well, actually rather easy too. Unfortunately I ran out of time to take photos or follow traces. A co-worker took the board home to photo it tonight. This is only the cyberblade pad so far. Tomorrow’s Lunch Prep photos for posting. I can’t post from work so they won’t be available to all of you until late tomorrow night (11:00 PM ish). Lessons Learned After experimenting with different sandpaper grits for removing the white epoxy ink, my opinion is that 320 grit works ok but it is still a little on the course side, but 400 grit was just right for hand sanding. However, a dremel would probably be easier to keep it pretty but the increased speed would probably dictate a finer grit such as 600, I have not experimented sufficiently in that area to actually make a recommendation other than to say, make the disk half again the diameter of the standard dremel sanding disks and make sure you back up the sandpaper with something flexible like a piece of plastic milk carton. Since it was far easier to sand through the green conformal coat and traces than it was to sand through the white epoxy ink (and that was not difficult at all), it was necessary to first mask around the white pad with some tape (I used scotch tape). Since tape is thicker than the white epoxy the tape will lift the sand paper and hold it off the surface leaving a white band around the outer edge that is just wide enough to conceal any hidden via’s at the edge. Therefore it was necessary to mask about 1/16 inch away from the edge of the white pad, since the tape still picks up the sandpaper it effectively protects the green conformal coat and traces close to the pad while allowing you to sand away all of the white pad. 04-24-2002 20:33:04

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile Finatronics, Yes on board RealTek 10/100 ethernet, Yes 20 pin connector for TFT LCD, No CF. According to SIS specs, TFT only, no mention of DTSN. The ethernet is on/above USB. S-Video & RCA video out is where 1st Serial connector, VGA where 2nd Serial connector. Two pinouts for Com1/3 & Com 2/4. Whole board 4mm tall with regular SDRAM PC100. Tiny BGA memory would be lower profile. 3mm high to top of USB/Ethernet sockets. 1mm higher than IO Mobo. It's still a hack job. I cannot find a single place to buy the serial, LCD, Front Panel cables, nor have I found a source for specs on the pinouts. So, it will still need the hack :) Believe me, I'm not giving up on the IO just yet. GWIZAH, The -FL doesn't support TV out. It doesn't have the SIS301 chip for this. Otherwise your right, it has 1 more PCI slot. So its a trade-off. 04-25-2002 15:27:58

More "Lack thereof" (modified 0 times) KneuB_2 Profile | Email Today’s Lunch Went through 200 MB’s of photos and max definition scans of both sides of the board. Photos aren’t adequate to follow the traces. The max definition scan of the back side would make a great wall mural, but it’s 88 MB (10 MB larger than the one turbowsr already has). The max definition scan of the front side (89 MB TIFF) has the same problems as the attempts from the office scanner, the focus depth blurs everything to the point that the traces can’t be followed. Tomorrow’s Lunch Back to the microscope and take photos of just small pieces of the Cyberblade pad area to post ASAP, because you all have been waiting to long for this. Follow on Plan Use the paint stripper solder-reflow process to remove the rest of the tall pieces, sand off all the white pads, and then try another max scan of the front side. Figure out a way to post such a large file if it turns out. (Could BearShare or Morphious be used for something like this? (My home line is DSL). Use the oven bake method to remove everything else and follow that with another max scan. Post it. (BTW GWIZAH, What version i-o did this board come from?) Follow traces and find the pin-outs for my TFT (assuming it’s here by then). 04-25-2002 21:54:39

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) GWIZAH Profile | Email Turbowsr, Since I received the board in the mail...Im not really sure, but I do remember theyre being a yamaha chip on board so my best guess is a ver. 4. 04-26-2002 12:19:56

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile GWIZAH, Your reply was for Kneub. Got me kinda confused :) 04-26-2002 14:47:16

RE:TFT Screen (modified 0 times) turbowsr Profile This thread was getting long again, taking me a while to load on these crappy 26K lines out here, so I started Part 3 here: http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=technical&Post=2494&Idle=0&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=0&Session=turbowsr.10198586275888 !!!!Please do not post on this thread any more, goto the link above for more exciting action in: TFT SCREENS ON THE I-OPENER Thank you, Turbowsr 04-26-2002 15:11:17

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