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Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz
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New MessageSafest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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It hit me like a ton of Bricks. There is no need to lift Q16 and add any sort of heat sinking other than a little bit of copper. Here is what I did, it works like a champ and my max board temp via MBM is 150 degrees F after many hours of running.

Here is what I did:
Added a 4 position SMT dip switch to set the FSB to 100MHz (1st 3 on, last off)
Added a .012 ohm SMT resistor on top of R302
Set SW4 to both open to set up 2V for the K6-III+
Added a K6-III+ and a IOp Lasagna cooler.
Added a cable & hard drive.
added a small 1.5" long, 1/4" wide strip of 10 mil copper to Q16 soldered to the tab. This goes straight up, then bends at right angles to the left so as not to touch the RF shield (I don't know if this is needed at all, but it couldn't hurt)

Here is the kicker:
I put a .13 10 watt cooling resistor at the OUTPUT of Q16! All I did was de-solder pin 3 (the one closest to the sodimm), bent it up and soldered the resistor from it to the solder pad. I used some heat shrink tubing to insulate the leads and it is parallel to the memory socket and up near the RF shield to keep heat away from the board.

I use k6clk.exe 4.5 to jump from 300 to 450 Mhz in the autoexec.bat file.

Stable as a rock
This has the BadFlash Seal of Approval! I've got parts available!

This keep the max power dropped by Q16 to under 4 watts.

01-07-2001 16:35:45

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) dr_steve
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Izzat a 0.13 ohm resistor? It seems this could work for any version IO?
01-07-2001 17:15:10

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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Once you have adapted the I-O to run a K6-III+, yes, this will work with any I-O. This method is a lot less danger to screwing up your board. Pin 3 is on a nice big solder pad so you don't need to worry about hurting it like can happen with pin 1. Just use solderwick to suck up excess solder on pin 1, then heat the pin again with a solderig iron and use a small needle-nose to bend up the pin. I used an axial lead .13 ohm resistor and it mounts perfect in there. Set up your voltage divider to set 2V. This is much more reliable for the K6-III+. Some folks get lucky, but none of mine will post below 1.9V.

Be sure to up the memory if you plan to use this machine for more than playing with. 32K with win98SE crashes quite often due to memory leaks.

01-08-2001 07:45:22

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) Tackhead
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Just got back from a week off... what wattage resistor(s) did you use? I'm about to go shopping and may pick up some resistors. I'm pretty sure my surplus store has several 3-5W wire-wounds, and if I put a few of 'em in parallel...

(yeah, I'm a geek... first thing I do when I get off the plane is hit the surplus store...)

01-09-2001 13:09:32

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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I am using 10Watt resistors. .13ohm works great. I designed it for 7 amps to drop 1 volt. gate to drain voltage needs to stay >.3 volts for Q16 to work properly. 3.3-1=2.3

It is SOOO much easier to put the resistor in the drain lead! I can't believe it took me so long to figure itout!

01-10-2001 06:50:51

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) leighklotz
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Badflash,

Do you recommend this with 2.0v for the K6-III 333? Or for the K6-III+ 450 that PCliquidators has? I just bought one of those hoping that I could get my early v4 to work with the "low-risk hack" that hasn't worked yet with the K6-3. (My VCore is 2.1v with that, I guess because of resistor tolerances.)

01-10-2001 21:23:21

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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The K6-III won't run at 2V, but the K6-III+ will. I'm pretty sure the K6-III+ is what PC Liquidators is selling. You only want a K6-III+ as only the + series processors support software CPU bus multiplier commands. For what ever reason, I and others have no been able to get softFSB to work reliably, and have been unable to boot at 100Mhz FSB at CPU multipliers above 3. With the K6-III+ you boot at 300Mhz, then warp to 450 during windows start-up.

2.1V is OK, but may limit your speed due to current draw. Be sure to use the cooling resistor! you will smoke your board if you don't!

01-11-2001 14:23:01

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) cheaphack
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I just got a K6-III+ 450. I am running at 300Mhz on a V5 by 1) setting 2V and 2) using k6clk to set multiplier to 4.5 in autoexec.bat (will not run the SiSandra CPU benchmark, but no hangs otherwise). Everything appears to run cool (in MBM and in BIOS) without the cooling resistor.

I have also been unable to reliably use softFSB to get 100Mhz. I can sometimes get it to run at 100Mhz FSB for a few minutes, but get inevitable hangs. For this reason, I am going to do the FSB mod. So, next, I am going to try 100Mhz*3 without the cooling resistor, then add the resistor to get to 450Mhz with k6clk.

This is one way cool project. Kind of reminds me of the Heathkit days....

01-11-2001 14:45:55

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) deadbolt
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Could you point me to the k6clk.exe program. I searched all the AMD pages I could find and came up empty. I did come up with a program called TSC which appears to be a dos based CPU multiplier utility.

http://www.amdzone.com/files/k6-x+/tsc.zip

01-12-2001 13:32:23

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) silver944
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do a search on k6clk on this bbs (doh!!!). but anyway, the link is
http://www.geocities.com/liamsay/index.html
01-13-2001 13:56:57

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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I killed a V5 at 300Mhz at 2V with a heat sink. I'd advise against it. The cooling resistor is REALLY easy to install. It just sounds scary. Q16 is easy to get to and the lead closest to the memory socket is the one you want. This is a big heavey duty solder pad. Not that you can't screw it up, but it is easy to do it right.
01-13-2001 17:26:48

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) Turbo3
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Badflash: What are the symptoms of the iopener you "killed" at 300MHz and 2.0v? Is Q16 fried? What are your plans for it if it is still dead?
01-13-2001 17:47:19

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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I have both a V3 and a V5 that won't boot. Same symtoms. Power supply voltages are normal, so I don't suspect Q16 although I may replace it for GP. I also added a 1000 uf aluminum cap across C166 in case it cooked off, but no joy. Been too busy with other work to do any serious trouble shooting. I don't have a scope and trouble shooting with a voltmeter only takes you so far. Contact me off-line if you want to discuss it. Lets not muck this thread up.
01-15-2001 06:27:37

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) New I/O Owner
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Has anybody taken any pics of this mod? And Jack, you mention you have parts. What would the price be for the parts for this modification.. Thanks, Howie
02-09-2001 13:40:26

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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All you need to do is go to my website Howie, all the parts are listed there. Website & handle are the same. BBS rules prohibit me selling, so I don't list prices here.

As to the pics, itisn't a very photogenic mod. For a V5 there isn't much to do and my first post in this thread covers it. SW4 is above the SODIMM socket, open both positions to set core voltage to 2V.

Here are a few details from the V3 hack that are the same in the V4/V5:

Solder .012 ohm SMT resistor on top of R302 located to the left of the power plug.

Set up for 100 Mhz FSB
Remove modem daughter board by removing 4 screws and removing board to gain access to the dip switch area. Be careful of the connector. This may be removed or left connected as long as care is taken not to damage it.
Tin the solder pads for SW2 at the upper right of where the modem board was.
Solder 4 position dip switch in place going 1234 left to right. Solder wick can be used to clean up the connection if solder bridges form. Set 123 to ON and 4 to OFF. Replace modem and connector if needed.

Replace the CPU & Lasagna cooler and test for booting to sandisk. It should work at this point.

Remove the power plug.

Add Cooling resistor:
Form the leads to allow the .13 ohm 10 watt resistor to run parallel to the SODIMM socket and reach to pin 3 of Q16. This is a little tricky, but you’ll figure it out. Insulate excess leads with heat shrink tubing.

Heat pin 3 of Q16 and carefully bend it up once the solder melts. Solder one lead of the resistor to the pad and one end to the lead of pin 3 of Q16. This inserts the cooling resistor in series with the drain of Q16. Gently bend the cooling resistor up so it does not rest on the SODIMM socket. This should come in contact with the RF shield when replaced but nothing conducting electricity should be exposed on the resistor.

Add the heat sink:
This is the most tedious part: Solder the 1/4” wide copper strip standing strait up to the tab on Q16 next to C166. Once cool, bend the tab while holding it firm with a needle nose so it is the same height as C166 and goes to the left. This will reduce board temperature by 10 degrees F. Without the heat sink speeds no faster than 400Mhz should be attempted. Temps with no heat sink at 400 are around 158F and with heat sink, the same at 450.

02-09-2001 15:18:27

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) mrblack51
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Just a thought, but could you add a small heatsink w/ fan (5v) on top of q16 to solve the heat issue. if you get the dual rs232 board and an imod3, then you end up with 2 5v connectors for fans.
02-12-2001 13:48:28

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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I'm playing around with a 25mm 5v fan now. There is a screw in the corner of the IMOD3 that looks perfect to mount it. This will blow air directly on Q16. Mounting a heat sink directly on Q16 is counter productive due to the transistor being plastic. Soldering a small copper heat sink on the tab does help, but it makes it tough with the cooling resistor mod and probably impossible with the fan. I think putting a hold in the sodimm door and mounting a fan there is a good idea. With the IMOD3 and the RS-232 board youhave two easy plug in 5V connections. You can parallel 2 25mm fans to blow on Q16 and out the door.

If it works I'll be stocking these fans. They are really cute!

02-12-2001 14:20:28

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) dr_steve
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I've been using a 25mm 5V fan for Q16 cooling for a while. No heat
sink, just the fan; the resistor is quite close (above the SODIMM, below
Q16).

I hot glued the fan to the resistor, the big cap next to Q16, and the
IMOD-3. Everything stays cool enough (barely). I also soldered the
leads from the fan to the base of the pins for the +5/GND on the IMOD
to keep the wiring "local."

Side notes: you need inlets and outlets! Air intake: I cut a hole in
the shield for the fan and carved some holes in the IO's back as well as
in the base mount. Air outlet: there was nowhere for the air to go,
so I cut another hole in the side of the shield (just to the right
of R342(? from memory) and added some vent holes on the right side
of the back of the case.

I'll get a pointer to pics as soon as they're uploadable.

02-23-2001 11:13:34

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) cb4800
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Where can I order a 25mm 5V fan from?
02-25-2001 17:42:00

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) YouBecha
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Yea, and what is a cheap source for that .13 ohm 10watt resistor
02-26-2001 14:58:14

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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No cheap source for either unless you get them in bulk. I have resistors, I'll be stocking the fans soon.
02-27-2001 13:38:09

New MessageHeatsink question (modified 0 times) Barak
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So the Heatsink is attached to Q16 and the other side is not attached to anything? What about attaching it to the Lasagna fan, for example?

-B

07-11-2001 12:50:51

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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Lots of things have been tried, but none have been real effective. The plastic on the top of Q16 is a pretty good insulator. A heat sink soldered to the tab at the top works for about a 10 degree F drop, but is a REAL short circuit risk. Best thing to do is move air over the area. What would be good is get a fan that sucks instead of blows. The CPU fan just adds to the heat inside the case. We have used little spot coolers on Q16 and they worked OK, but you need to get the heat out of the box.
07-11-2001 13:59:21

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) Barak
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Assuming I just want to drop in the processor and go (willing to only change SW4 settings), what is the fastest processor? I see BadFlash refers to "K6-III+". I've also seen folks talk about the "AMD-K6-III/333AFK" part. For someone who doesn't have a soldering iron :), what is the best choice?
07-12-2001 10:01:23

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) Linuxguru
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For V4b/V5 with switch SW4, the AMD K6-III+ or the K6-II+/450 MHz running at 2.0v are the best choices, since it allows you to boot at the default 200 MHz, and change the clock-multiplier on the fly with the k6clk.exe software utility, allowing the use of the 6x clock multipler to get to 66 x 6 ~ 400 MHz without any soldering hacks.

Note, however, that the ability of the the power supply circuitry on the I-Opener to supply the current required at 400 MHz is marginal. Depending on the particular chip used, you might get by. If you have the luxury of testing a batch of CPUs and selecting the ones with the lowest power consumption ('Icc binning'), you may find one that works reliably at 400 MHz.

The 4x multiplier (266 Mhz) is known to work reliably with just about any K6-II+/III+ without modifications.

The III+ is pretty hard to find now, but the II+ is widely available. The only difference is the L2 cache size of 128 KB on the II+ versus 256 KB on the III+.

07-12-2001 12:13:46

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) Barak
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So the K6-III is not a good idea? In the thread:
http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=technical&Post=1541&Idle=0&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=0&Session=
Folks talk about just dropping in a K6-III and running @ 200 MHz, but in this thread:
http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=verytech&Post=141&Idle=0&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=0&Session=
You said the K6-III will fail "after 15-20 minutes". Which is correct?

Also, I've searched for k6clk.exe on the BBS, and the only link is bad now. Is this available from AMD, or......?

Thanks for all your help!

-B

07-12-2001 13:52:45

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) Barak
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Sorry, when I said "you said", it should read "BadFlash said". I get so used to BadFlash replying that I didn't bother to read the author name. Sorry!
07-12-2001 14:01:01

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) Linuxguru
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At 200 Mhz, the K6-III/333AFK will definitely not trip the overcurrent protection or fail after 15-20 minutes - I have 3 I-Openers with this combination, no fan, as quiet as the original, no problems. The desktop K6-3 might cause problems, but definitely not the K6-III/333, which was marketed as a mobile chip originally, before being closed out at Fry's.

The K6-III/333AFK was the best upgrade to use, *until* the K6-III+/II+ showed up a few months later, ran even cooler, and also supported PowerNow clock-multiplier control through software. Best of all, the K6-II+/450 still sells for about the same price ($30) as the original K6-III/333 closeout at Fry's, but has the potential to run at a higher clock. However, it has only 128K of L2 cache as compared to the 256K in the K6-III.

There's a tradeoff to be made here, but the II+ comes out ahead of the III in most scenarios. The III+ is even better on performance, but that chip is now $80-$100 and available only on EBay.

07-12-2001 17:30:53

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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Linuxguru-
Keep in mind that what we are dealing with with any configuration that may spike current draw to over 4 amps is design margin. One needs to be carefull when using absolutes in this area. I was dealing with a hacked V3 with a stock K6-II 300Mhz 2.2V CPU running a 66X3. It did indeed shut down without prior notice after about 20 minutes running the Microsoft Pinball Arcade demo on continuous loop. Once R302 was bridged with the .012 ohm resistor the problem went away.

I was also unable to get any of my K6-III+ CPU's to boot at below 1.9V on any of my V3 (hacked to dual voltage), V4, or V5 machines. Again, we are dealing with margin as the CPU is not rated below 1.9V. When you add up all the errors, some help, some hurt. For sure there are no absolutes. What I try to recommend is that which I know will work for everyone. When you sell a product and need to back it up it is economically important to take that path. That is why I suggest not going over 400Mhz as well as many IO's become unstable above that speed.

07-16-2001 05:29:10

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) Linuxguru
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I agree, the power supply is marginal for operating at higher clocks without Vcore or R302 mods. That's why I recommended the lower power II+/III+ CPUs. You are right that the K62P is a good 'drop-in no-solder' upgrade, but it doesn't support k6clk (PowerNow), so you have to fix the clock multiplier at 3x66 or do some soldering to get to a higher FSB or multiplier. Which is OK for the hardware-inclined folks, but the soldering-challenged folks will run into a wall there, or settle for 200 MHz operation.
07-16-2001 10:59:22

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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It is sort of a catch 22 there isn't it? You MUST solder to go over 200Mhz anyway. As soon as you go to 250 Mhz on my systems you trips out the power supply after a few minutes if you don't solder R302. If you can solder R302 you can solder dip switches. To get real speed you need to do the cooling resistor mod or add a switching power supply. That is where it takes some moderate soldering skills and maybe a spare Q16.

I consider being able to boot straight to 400Mhz without the use of K6clk an advantage myself. I have not checked, does the new bios properly report the CPU speed on the + processors? It does in the K62P. I know that the V5_Patched bios is confused by any of the + processors.

07-17-2001 07:17:39

New MessageFastest V4/V5 upgrade w/o CPU fan? (modified 0 times) Barak
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Let's say I'm willing and able to make all the above component addition and soldering changes, but I don't want to use a fan for the CPU because of noise. Right now I'm running my HD out of the chassis, but I'm going to try putting it along the (from the back) left hand side, mounted on a thin sheet of plexiglass. Assuming I can do this and leave the OEM heatsink intact, how fast can I go before the CPU overheats and fails?
07-23-2001 13:58:29

New MessageRE:Safest V4/V5 upgrade to 450MHz (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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Probably 250 Max, but you better keep an eye on the temps. I find it hard to beleive that these fans make so much noise that it is a factor. I can't hear the fans on any of my machines. I think you guys just aren't cutting a big enough hole in the RF shield, or your fan is damaged.
07-23-2001 16:15:56

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