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Add a second USB port (step-by-step)
Add a second USB port (step-by-step)

New MessageAdd a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Roastbeef
http://www.geocities.com/rarose2/index.html
04-09-2000 00:17:17

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Shane
http://www.geocities.com/rarose2/index.html

Very cool. Could you recommend a place to order the parts?

04-09-2000 01:35:40

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) JustPete
Jezus, never thought I'd get to use both. Do you know of anyone who stocks the usb socket itself?

Nice pics btw.

04-09-2000 01:36:00

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) void_handle
Roastbeef-

What type of wire are you using to hardwire the Linksys to the io mainboard? Is any RF shielding needed?

Are you removing the Linksys plastic case, or leaving it basically intact? Any RF shielding issues here at all?

I'm thinking of removing the Linksys plastic case, mounting the ethernet board in place of the modem, and rewiring the two io LEDs above the display to IDE and network activity.

Good work, btw!

04-09-2000 07:25:05

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Dr. Dremel
Roastbeef: how's the throughput? I ask because you're replacing inductors with zero ohm resistors, which obviously changes the behavior of the circuit somewhat. Maybe it won't matter much with such a short cable run to an ethernet adapter inside the case, but I think I'll wait to hear what kind of transfer rates you can get through your modified circuit before I try it myself. Too bad you couldn't figure out what the values of the first port's inductors are....

Oh, for the doubters, yes I can be fairly certain there should be inductors in the positions he's marked NR1 through NR3. For one thing all those positions are labeled on the board with "L" as the prefix. For another, all the resisters ("R" prefix) that correspond between the two ports already are populating the second port, for whatever reason it would appear they only wanted to populate the one (cheapest?) type of the three main types of analog components, e.g. they did the resisters, but not the capacitors or inductors.

Again, I'll grant it probably seems to work, but what if the signal echoes, etc. cause data corruption?

04-09-2000 11:31:47

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Roastbeef
I based that subsitution off a workstation design I was involved in that left a position for ferrite beads immediately prior to the connector in case of EMI issues, but ended up being populated with 0-ohm resistors. Since we're not going outside the case that shouldn't matter.

As to why the resistors are populated on the second port when nothing else is: It's bad form to allow those lines (which go directly to the chipset) to float. If you notice, the resistors that are there allow the lines to be pulled low. (As to why it's bad for them to float: If they float above the threshold the USB controller will think a device has been plugged in.)
--Roastbeef

04-09-2000 12:01:50

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Roastbeef
Void,
I'm butchering the short USB cable that came with the adapter (so yes, it'll be shielded).

The plastic case is history... since the case is pure plastic (i.e. no metal paint inside, or shield) you're not loosing anything. I had also considered putting it (along with a 4-port USB hub) in the base. (Once you crack open the Linksys case, take the PCB and compare with the "waffle openings" on the bottom of the base.... and compare the amount of projection of the 10BaseT jack with the thickness of the plastic at the back of the base.... perfect fit)
--Roastbeef

04-09-2000 12:10:34

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Dr. Dremel
Roastbeef: sounds good to me, we sure are lucky to have you here!

(I thought about the tied-to-low possibility but I didn't have the board out to check at the time.)

Can't wait to hear that you've upped the bus to 100 :)

04-09-2000 13:23:24

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Bigdaddy
If you are in San Antonio,

ATEX eltectronics has USB ports (3-4 different ones too) for about a half dollar a piece.

NOTE: This is ATEX _not_ ALTEX.

They also have RCA type jacks for way cheap too.

04-09-2000 14:18:34

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) void_handle
Roastbeef-

I was planning a USB hub in the base, but only really need one additional USB, so the Linksys inside the case will be enough. One more question:

How are you handling the 10T connector on the Linksys? Are you mounting the RJ45 somewhere? Replacing one of the RJ11 modem connectors? Do you have something simple and elegant in mind for this?

04-09-2000 14:47:46

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Roastbeef
I've got an old NIC laying around that has an 10BaseT jack with two leds (on either side of the "push-to-release" tab) that I'm going to desolder and see if I can't find a nice spot on the back for. Take care of the 10BaseT *and* the LEDs in one opening.
04-09-2000 16:07:46

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) citizenUSB
you damn kids suck
04-10-2000 06:49:41

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) I-wait
Profile
Roast Beef, nice hack! just bought a netgear usb to ethernet adapter from CC(on sale this week for 20 bucks after rebate!)and plan on installing it inside the case(when i finally get an io).this adapter has a really small form factor only 1&3/16 by 3 inches and 7/16 thick with the rj-45 connector removed(allowing it to be put almost anywhere in the case. if someone doesn't want to hack it up it will fit in the base and plug into the stock usb port very nicely. keep up the good work!
04-10-2000 11:42:52

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Randy
Roastbeef, is there a difference (functiaonally, not style-wise ) between a zero-ohm resistor and a solder bridge?
04-10-2000 12:07:51

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Roastbeef
Not really... unless you consider that a solder bridge will rely upon the solder mask (that green stuff covering the board) to insulate the solder from the traces it crosses over (that you do want to connect to!). NR4 (http://www.geocities.com/rarose2/usb_label1.JPG) is the only one I'd be concerned about.

Actually I didn't have any of the larger resistors to connect for NR4, so I used 2 small 0-ohms butted back-to-back once I saw that the solder junction between the two 0-ohms wouldn't be over that trace running between the pads. (I should add that it doesn't take much soldering work with small SMT parts like these for me to gain a whole new level of appreciation for our lab techs that do this stuff at work.)

Hopefully after work today I'll be able to get a few more pictures and scope shots up of the 2nd USB port.

04-10-2000 12:27:21

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Roastbeef
FYI: On one unit I tried only adding the 4 0-ohm resistors and not bothering with the filter caps. I'll post scope traces later, but the net is that noise from the power supply is enough to potentially cause problems. I'm going to adding the caps one at a time to see where the signal quality improves enough not to worry about the rest.
--Roastbeef
04-11-2000 10:54:41

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Chagrin
Roastbeef - do you have part numbers for your list of ingredients? I went to Newark to see if I could get what I needed, but their search is limited w/o someone's model / catalog number.
04-12-2000 12:03:56

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) DFW USB Hunter
Nice RIDE Roastbeef!!!!

I have been hunting all over Dallas for that freak'n USB connector. I guess I am gonna have to order a $2 part with $8 shipping :(

Hey if your in the DFW metroplex area drop me a note jumper@fastlane.net

04-28-2000 09:33:41

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Mac-
Profile
great hack! could you post really detailed info on wiring and installing the usb ethernet adapter internally? with pics and the whole deal.
05-07-2000 16:32:33

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) node808
I have searched for hours for a vertical type A usb female connector(like the one on the IO)...no luck...where in the hell can I get this damn thing....Please help me....

node808@bellsouth.net

thanks.

05-09-2000 22:15:40

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Evil Spock
What, something like this?

URA-1003 Series A Receptacle, Upright, Solder Type (Thru-Hole), 4-pin Connector, UL94V-0 Housing

http://www.ntcdistributing.com/ntc1.htm

05-10-2000 00:05:33

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) node808
Thats exactly the one. I found it shortly after I posted the message...so if anyone needs the usb connector....the URA-1003 is the one to get. Call 1-888-607-4603 They are 4.00 each.

Thanks Evil

05-10-2000 14:06:29

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Kurious
RB:
Was checking your parts list for 2nd USB port on various sites including Digikey, and it seems that a 150uF (microFarad I assume) cap as specified is a pretty big value for surface mount. I can't find anything over about 50uF for any voltage. Anyone know any sources for these in small quantities?
05-11-2000 20:48:51

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Reverend Jim Jones
NC1 and NC2 (ct45 & ct47 on the board) are not 150uf. I think it was a typo. They should be the same as ct44 & ct46. They are part of a "pi" filter on the 5 volt power going to the USB port. Anything from .01uf to 1uf should work fine. If someone has a capacitance meter, they can measure ct44 or ct46 and let us know the correct value.
05-12-2000 13:42:24

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Shane
Hitherto, I don't think there's been a confirmation by anyone else that has gotten the 2nd USB port working.

Well, I'm happy to say that I can confirm a working 2nd USB port. Please don't ask me the values because I have no idea.

I followed the diagram that Roastbeef had provided. However, since I didn't really have access to SMT components and it was dubious from the posts here what the correct values are, I desoldered four small caps by the parallel port because I don't have any use for the parallel port. I then desoldered two larger caps by the unpopulated compact flash socket. For the zero ohm SMT resisters, I skipped them all together and used a conductive pen to draw silver traces between the pads.

After verifying that everything booted up correctly in Win98se, I soldered up my SMC 2202USB/ETH board to the 2nd USB port. Everything is now working just fine. I don't think anything was using the caps that I desoldered other than the parallel port. To test it, I transferred a 141MB file over my network (NETBEUI) around 7 minutes. I also downloaded a 7MB file off my local FTP server at ~400kBps sustained (~800kBps peak). Personally, I'm satisfied with the results.

Perhaps someone here with the capabilities to measure the values of the capacitors can post it here so that if someone doesn't want to wreck their parallel port, they can just buy the components.

When I have some time, I'll provide some pictures and write this up in detail.

05-17-2000 16:58:13

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Shane
I think those larger caps by the empty CF socket may have been used by the temperature sensors.
05-17-2000 23:27:34

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Shane
Well, I borrowed a digital camera from a friend, and managed to take some pictures. I still don't have time to write it all up on a nice web page yet.

Either way, here's some photos:

http://www.knowplace.org/photos/2202_zoom.jpg
http://www.knowplace.org/photos/2202_zoom2.jpg
http://www.knowplace.org/photos/2ndUSB_SMT.jpg
http://www.knowplace.org/photos/2ndUSB_SMT2.jpg
http://www.knowplace.org/photos/audio_out.jpg
http://www.knowplace.org/photos/backRJ45.jpg
http://www.knowplace.org/photos/backshield.jpg
http://www.knowplace.org/photos/backside.jpg
http://www.knowplace.org/photos/insideRCA.jpg
http://www.knowplace.org/photos/outsideRCA.jpg

05-19-2000 17:52:03

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Tinman
Profile
Shane:
That RJ45 connector you have appears to have led's built into it, is this the case, or are those just for looks ?
If they are leds, I'd like the part # on that, and where u got it.
Tinman
05-19-2000 23:33:29

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) simmons1
That is the connector that came with the SMC Ethernet adapter that he installed inside the case.
05-20-2000 05:37:52

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) ronbo
If I may be so bold to add a few clarifying details...

(Digikey is a great place to get electronic parts... we use them at work for prototype parts all the time. http://www.digikey.com )

RV1/RV2 appear to be self-resetting solid-state fuses... aka: "Poly-Switch". These devices are like a circuit breaker in function, only much faster responding, and self resetting. The USB spec. allows a device to draw 500mA from the host, so these appear to be 0.75A rated devices (thus the "075" marking).

Digikey - MINISMD075CT-ND $0.65 ea.
(possible alternate) MINISMDC075CT-ND

I wouldn't totally neglect the benefit of using some type of fusing device here... be it a normal fuse, or a polyswitch.

That being said... my SMC 2202 adapter (and I imagine most other USB devices) has its own fuse on the PCB... namely "L2" (though incorrectly named!)


The CT44/45/46/47 are actually 10uF (yes, TEN uF) monolithic ceramic capacitors.

I would suggest adding these 2 LARGE caps to insure a quiet VCC. (BTW... these are "1206" case size, Y5V dielectric caps). Digikey #PCC1894CT-ND (they're about $.80 each)

If you can't find them, but can find at least 4.7uF/10V tantalum SMD caps, you could use them in place. The (approximate) equivelant tantalum case size is "EIA A-size" (3.2 x 1.6mm). The closest Digikey has is the 4.7uF/10V - PCS2475CT-ND at $3 for 10 pcs.

Personally, I'll probably adapt small, leaded tantalum caps... I already have them.

IMPORTANT NOTE:
Ceramic caps are not polarized... they can be installed end-for-end without concern.

HOWEVER... tantalum are certainly NOT able to be installed "either way"... they must be installed correctly, or they WILL burn up!

I have determined that the "+" terminal of the caps must go toward the BOTTOM edge of the circuit board. (or "-" end towards the TOP of the board)

As far as the 0 Ohm resistors in place of the chip ferrite beads, I would agree that in this case you will not see any problems. Keeping the adapter inside the shielded case solves all related problems that these RFI suppression parts were put there for.

I would say to NOT use silver paint in place of the 0 Ohm resistors, or you run the risk of shorting to a non-related trace that runs between the two pads!

On the Ethernet connector issue, I'll be doing like I saw one of you did... reuse my original receptacle from the adapter, then securely fasten (epoxy!) it to the PCB in place of one of the original RJ11 connectors.

This may be my only post for a while until I get more work done on my firdst unit. I just picked it up last week... after a 7-8 week wait.

Since it's to be a kitchen machine, I'll be leaving the original CPU heat sink alone (totally), mounting the hard drive where the modem was, and the ethernet over by the VIA multi-function chip is. I'll set the HD timeout to something like 1 minute so it will run totally silent except when in use.

Oh... me? I've got 20+ years of EE work, and right now I'm the Engineering Mgr. at an electronics contract design & mfg firm near KC MO.

Don't know about you all, but once my machine is up and running on Win98, I'm sending NPL some more $$$... it cost them FAR more than we paid for it to build (I estimate $250/$300ea in 50k qty), and it's only fair. (we couldn't buy anything close for under $500)

Just my 2 cents worth!

05-29-2000 01:04:21

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Mac-
Profile
i am going to use wire instead of the 0-ohm resistors.

I was wondering, since i forgot 10v .1uf capacitators today.
If i could _JUST_ solder the wires on the board where the 0ohm resistors go, and turn it on and not worry about anything frying?


thanks,
Mac

05-29-2000 11:58:45

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Jim Hearne
Just to add to the success list for this mod.
I fitted all the caps as 0.1uf, both sizes and all resistors as zero ohm links except for RV2 where i fitted a suitable sized inductor.
I would have used inductors for all the locations but couldn't find a supplier in the UK of small enough ones.
I couldn't get the vertical USB socket either0 but one removed from a USB port cable for AT motherboards worked with a couple of brackets soldered on to support it.

JIM

05-29-2000 15:42:17

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) ronbo
Mac-
Yes, you can just try the wirs in place of the 0-Ohm resistors... but remember, you place your IOP at risk by not using some type of a current-limiting device at RV2... that's NOT suppose to be a short circuit. Even a 1 Ohm resistor would be better than a wire.

The problem with not using correct values for the cap's will show up as inconsistant operation... the noise on the VCC of the ethernet adapter (or whatever device you use this new USB port for) can cause false data values... which can result in trashed files, wrong data received, or at minimum... repeated retries as the CRC checks fail.

Also keep this in mind... using 0.1uF caps is a 100:1 reduction in the design value... so quite honestly, you might as well not use anything at all since 0.1uF will have about zero effect on bypassing the noise.

05-30-2000 11:16:39

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Dr. Ion
ronbo: A zero-ohm resistor is not a current-limiting device.. it offers you no protection over a piece of wire or blob of solder.

They're all zero-ohm until you exceed the wattage rating and burn them up. And if it was truely zero-ohm, then you never will (since it won't drop the voltage, use any power, or generate any heat.) But even a piece of wire isn't exactly zero-ohm... it just takes tons of current to heat it up -- like more than the power supply could put out.

Anyway, plenty of other parts would burn clean off the board before a zero-ohm resistor sacrifices itself.

The reason they use 0-ohm resistors in these designs is because they're easy to control in manufacturing. It's a lot easier to DNI (do not insert) a zero-ohm resistor on the Pick & Place machine than to keep solder from bridging or add a jumper. Remember that these parts cost them a fraction of a cent... around $0.0013 IIRC.

In short, use wire, solder, whatever conductor you have lying around and don't worry about it at all.

05-30-2000 12:27:19

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Mac-
Profile
Dr-Ion: ok thanks, i am going to to attach the wires today :)


One question though, i was wondering, for the caps
the guy at radio shack said .1uf 50V ceramic caps would work just as well as 10v?
is this true
He also said a 100V 50v cap would work if a 150V 50V cap would.

Thanks,
(one other question, where can i order a zero-ohm resistor smt), the smallest i have found is .005 ohms smt)

Mac

05-31-2000 13:53:12

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) ronbo
Dr. Ion, (and Mac)
Regarding your comments about my response above...

My point was:
1) he could "try" the wire in place of a current limiting device that normally went at RV2
2) I don't suggest it!

I did not say that the zero ohm resistor (jumper) was a valid current limiting device... give me some credit... I've been at this for over 20 years, and presently an Engineering Manager at /http://www.proginst.com where we have over $1M invested in two side-by-side SMD assembly lines.

The original design does not use zero ohm jumpers in any of the mentioned locations... it uses SMD ferrite beads or low value chip inductors (L31,L36,L37), which although they might well check as 0 ohms, certainly had some resistance.

Again, don't use "solder blobs", as there ARE other signal traces running between those pads! Sure, there is solder mask covering them, but solder mask is not intended to prevent shorting in such conditions!

If you want to use wires in place of L31/36/37, then be sure the wires are elevated slightly from the PCB surface between the pads.

The capacitors (CT44/46 & 45/47) were measured with my $400 capacitance meter, and are indeed 10uF ceramic chips. If you can only get 0.1uF, you might as well leave them off to save yourself some trouble and possible risk... they honestly won't help anything at 1/100th the original value.

As mentioned before, you can use any low-value resistor in place of the inductors, since the USB device will reside inside the unit. Anything up to a couple of Ohms will work fine... probably even as high as 10 Ohms since we're not driving any cable length to speak of. These are 0603 size resistors.. just in case you were wanting to order some. You could probably get 0805 parts to fit fine, but they will crowd things a bit.

I brought some 0603 ferrite bead samples home today, along with some sample 1uF tantalum caps for my CT45/47 caps... and a sample .75A polyswitch device for my RV2... all pretty close to original stuff! (it's nice to be able to get free samples from vendors)

...now if I can just get a 128MB SODIMM free sample... (not)

RC

05-31-2000 22:56:16

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Tackhead
Mac-:

And as for voltage ratings on capacitors, yes, higher-voltage-rated capacitors can almost always be substituted in place of lower-voltage-rated caps.

06-01-2000 10:16:31

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) Mac-
Profile
Ok
So i need to use 10uf ceramic caps instead of .1uf and i still use the same old 150uf ceramic caps, and i can use wire snips too


Is this all correct?
Thanks,
Mac

06-01-2000 16:26:01

New MessageRE:Add a second USB port (step-by-step) (modified 0 times) boykster
Tough thread to follow....lots of ambiguity...

Does this sound correct:
RV2: .75A polyswitch device (Digikey - MINISMD075CT-ND)
CT45 & CT47: 10uF ceramic caps
other caps: 0.1 uF ceramic caps
L31,L36,L37: 0-ohm 0603 smt resistors (or ferrite beads)

Does this sound correct? I'm in the middle of this mod and looking for clarification. I've installed the .75 polyswitch at RV2, and the 0-ohm resistors at L31,L36,L37. I don't have smt caps, but I was planning on trying leaded caps for CT45&CT47 (10uF) and leaded 0.1uF for the remainder. I'll finish it up tonite and post my results...

boykster

06-20-2000 09:34:23

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