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Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC!

New MessagePosting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) Datoyminaytah
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I am posting this from my WebPlayer running Windows 98 SE off the Disk On Chip! I have the DoC set up as a compressed drive with 98lite micro. 98lite only got Windows down to 51MB, so I compressed the drive to fit it all. I loaded the DoC by putting it in my WebSurfer with a HD with all necessary setup files. I am using Opera 4.02 as my browser. If anybody wants detailed instructions for how to do this, maybe I'll write it up.
11-18-2000 09:29:28

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) Turbo3
Profile
Great Job! Yes, take your time and write it up. I am sure there are many people who would like to keep their WebPlayer as close to original (silent) and still access the web, post messages, and handle mail.
11-18-2000 10:13:01

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) M_firmature
Profile
I have managed to get my doc working well with the webplayer
when I went to windows and double-spaced it, the sys files
corrupt for some reason and I can not boot from it. how did
you compress the doc?
11-18-2000 15:52:18

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) maldoror
Profile
Datoyminaytah: Yes, PLEASE give us step by step instructions. I think I'd prefer to do this rather an install a hard drive and generate a ton of heat in the case. It gets hot enough as it is.
11-18-2000 17:55:20

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) famewolf
Profile
WHat I'd like is a copy of that 98micro...don't suppose you can zip that puppy up and put it somewhere downloadable? I'll figure out how to get it on the doc. ;)
11-18-2000 18:38:58

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) neon96rt
Profile
here's a link to 98lite professional III

http://www.easyhome.in.th/tool/98lite3.zip

11-19-2000 10:45:55

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) Datoyminaytah
Profile
> when I went to windows and double-spaced it, the sys files
> corrupt for some reason and I can not boot from it. how did
> you compress the doc?

Ah. You have to know how DriveSpace works, and copy/edit some files by hand.

Assuming that you are booting from HD C, and Windows sees the DoC as D, do this:

1. Format drive D, transferring system files
2. Compress drive D, which should create a host drive H (the "real" D, while a compressed file gets remapped as D)
3. Move all the system files (including hidden ones) from the root of the newly compressed D to the root of H
4. Copy dblspace.ini from C to H, rename it to drvspace.ini, and edit it, changing "H,D0" to "H,C0"
5. Copy MSDOS.SYS from C to H (copy over the existing one) This file is really an INI file in Windows 98, and tells the system where to find Windows, among other things.

The DoC should now be bootable. Copy over the Windows and Program Files trees before you remove the HD.

If step 4 is confusing, read this. You may see either drvspace.bin or dblspace.bin, or both, on your HD. These two files are identical (in Win98.) Whichever one is on drive H is the one you should rename the ini file to. E.g. on my installation there was a drvspace.bin on drive H and dblspace.ini on drive C (both .bin files were also on C.)

11-19-2000 14:18:33

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) wiggles
Profile
Your DOC will die within a month, if not sooner. The DOC, just like the SanDisk on the I-Opener, has low rewrite tolerance. That's why you have to mount it read-only.

When you use an OS like Win98, which swaps to hard drive like crazy, you'll use up the few hundred thousands of rewrites in less than a month. Then you'll be left with a non-functional Virgin until you reinstall a HD.

It's easier to put in an HD from the very beginning.

11-20-2000 06:37:33

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) Aviator
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Wiggles, maybe I am reading it wrong, but the manufactorer would suggest otherwise,

Here's their example calculation:

For example, if an application writes 5KB of data to the flash every 1 minute (continually!) to an 8MB DiskOnChip, then the expected life time of the DiskOnChip will be:
Expected Life Time = 8MB * 1,000,000 * 0.75 / 5kB/sec * 60 * 24 = 833,333 days or 2283 years
These results demonstrate that there are no endurance problems for the DiskOnChip.
It doesn't matter if the data is comprised of many small files, one large file or one sector that is repeatedly being over-written. What counts is the total amount of data written. Clearly, either model proves the DiskOnChip product family will meet your most demanding requirements.

You can see the full text at:

http://m-sys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m_sys/solution?11=000905-0012&130=0968161507&14=16&2715=0&15=0&2716=&57=faq&58=&2900=6wM1RQjq5H

11-20-2000 07:03:31

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) Datoyminaytah
Profile
> Your DOC will die within a month, if not sooner.
> The DOC, just like the SanDisk on the I-Opener,
> has low rewrite tolerance.

This is from http://www.m-sys.com/product.asp?PID=2&FILE=doc2k&FAM=doc

----------------------------------------
Reliability

The use of TrueFFS, in conjunction with the built-in EDC/ECC (error detection and correction), provides maximum data reliability, even under harsh operating conditions such as power failures. Advanced wear leveling algorithm ensures long flash life for maximum usage.
----------------------------------------

Read the rest of the page for a better picture. It's still unclear if this reliability includes writing or if it just refers to reading. However, they do list Win 95/2000 under supported operating systems.

I disabled virtual memory on mine. With 64M of memory, I can browse with Opera and never get an "out of memory" message. At least, not yet.

11-20-2000 08:05:59

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) Datoyminaytah
Profile
OK, I'm not worried about the DoC's lifetime anymore after reading these:

Expected Lifetime of DiskOnChip
<a href="http://m-sys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m_sys/solution?11=000905-0012&130=0968161507&14=&2715=&15=&2716=&57=search&58=&2900=7ucujPdAIr&25=6&3=lifetime&><!--auto-->http://m-sys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m_sys/solution?11=000905-0012&130=0968161507&14=&2715=&15=&2716=&57=search&58=&2900=7ucujPdAIr&25=6&3=lifetime</a><!--auto-->

Increase DiskOnChip lifetime
<a href="http://m-sys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m_sys/solution?11=000905-0011&130=0968160722&14=&2715=&15=&2716=&57=search&58=&2900=7ucujPdAIr&25=6&3=lifetime&><!--auto-->http://m-sys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m_sys/solution?11=000905-0011&130=0968160722&14=&2715=&15=&2716=&57=search&58=&2900=7ucujPdAIr&25=6&3=lifetime</a><!--auto-->

What is wear leveling?
<a href="http://m-sys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m_sys/solution?11=000906-0028&130=0968258412&14=&2715=&15=&2716=&57=search&58=&2900=7ucujPdAIr&25=6&3=lifetime&><!--auto-->http://m-sys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m_sys/solution?11=000906-0028&130=0968258412&14=&2715=&15=&2716=&57=search&58=&2900=7ucujPdAIr&25=6&3=lifetime</a><!--auto-->

11-20-2000 08:14:27

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) Datoyminaytah
Profile
Hey! The links worked on the preview page. (I.e. they were "clickable".) What happened to them?
11-20-2000 08:16:08

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) Datoyminaytah
Profile
Let's try again:

<a href="http://m-sys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m_sys/solution?11=000905-0012&130=0968161507&14=&2715=&15=&2716=&57=search&58=&2900=7ucujPdAIr&25=6&3=lifetime&><!--auto-->http://m-sys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m_sys/solution?11=000905-0012&130=0968161507&14=&2715=&15=&2716=&57=search&58=&2900=7ucujPdAIr&25=6&3=lifetime</a><!--auto-->

<a href="http://m-sys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m_sys/solution?11=000905-0011&130=0968160722&14=&2715=&15=&2716=&57=search&58=&2900=7ucujPdAIr&25=6&3=lifetime&><!--auto-->http://m-sys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m_sys/solution?11=000905-0011&130=0968160722&14=&2715=&15=&2716=&57=search&58=&2900=7ucujPdAIr&25=6&3=lifetime</a><!--auto-->

<a href="http://m-sys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m_sys/solution?11=000906-0028&130=0968258412&14=&2715=&15=&2716=&57=search&58=&2900=7ucujPdAIr&25=6&3=lifetime&><!--auto-->http://m-sys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m_sys/solution?11=000906-0028&130=0968258412&14=&2715=&15=&2716=&57=search&58=&2900=7ucujPdAIr&25=6&3=lifetime</a><!--auto-->

11-20-2000 08:18:13

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) famewolf
Profile
Followed the instructions and I now have a working webplayer running "embedded win98"...formated the doc..compressed it..moved win98 micro over...deleted unneeded mdm*.* in the inf and all .txt and .log files....set the compression to maximum and recompressed everything on the doc...added Opera 4.02 for web...naviscope (tiny..strips ads..sets clock etc..)...zonealarm (firewall)...and coolplayer (tiny mp3 player)...the smc usb ethernet is working fine at 100 megabit and steams mp3's just fine....says I have 32 meg "free"...even would have room to install one of the free isp's software if it wasnt huge...oh and to those worried about the doc "life"...according to the manufacturer..they were using 32 meg of the 48 meg as web cache for their service..this means it was getting written to on a regular basis using the OLD software....YMMV......I'm gonna save the doc image and install it on the second webplayer that just arrived...I may run a hd with them but I don't HAVE to. ;) Thanks for the excellent instructions on setting up the doc to make it bootable while compressed.
11-21-2000 16:40:27

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) bubsdaddy
Profile | Email
Excellent! Is the speed better running off the doc? Wouldn't it have to be with no physical rotation and seek like a regular hard drive? Perhaps one of you could make the image of this available for download so we could use dolly or a similar util to write it to our doc?
11-21-2000 16:55:01

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) famewolf
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Speed is pretty snappy....excellent idea...but will take some time to upload 48 meg at 56k. ;) I'll see if I can get the image loaded tonight and post a link tomorrow.
11-21-2000 17:21:00

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) davethewave
Profile
Wow ! That would be awesome....looking forward to it.
11-21-2000 19:23:47

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) hevnsnt
Profile | Email
Can I get your image when you get a chance?

-hevnsnt
http://www.i-hacked.com

11-22-2000 07:46:42

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) famewolf
Profile
I've dumped the image..it's in the process of being uploaded to an ftp. The link along with a general description and instructions to install will be posted tonight sometime. I'm dumping the doc a second time to verify filesize because the dump was only 39 meg.
11-22-2000 07:50:22

New MessageRE:Posting from WebPlayer w/w98se ALL ON DoC! (modified 0 times) Datoyminaytah
Profile
(Speed using DoC vs. HD, and other tips)

Mine seems pretty speedy. I'm trying to figure out if maximum disk compression slows it down noticibly, but I didn't really pay too much attention at "standard" compression. Obviously, better compression takes more CPU time, but I think the access speed of the DoC makes up for it.

A couple other observations:

You can probably disable virtual memory completely. With 64M of RAM, you don't need virtual memory for web browsing with Opera. At least, I haven't had an "out of memory" error yet, and I often run Opera, Windows Explorer, and maybe a few other utilities while I'm setting stuff up.

You can also disable all disk caching, since the only purpose of disk caching is to put frequently used (or expected to be used) data from a slow HD into fast RAM. The DoC is fast enough already. (This also increases free memory slightly.)

You shouldn't ever need to defrag the DoC. Like disk caching, the only purpose of defragging is to help a slow HD read file data all in one pass instead of making the drive heads hop all over the drive looking for the pieces of a fragmented file. Since the DoC is just memory, one memory address is as fast as another. (I am assuming this is the case with the DoC.) Also, if you read the specs on m-sys, they say the chip may automatically move data around for "wear leveling", so that would defeat defragging anyway.

11-22-2000 10:06:41

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