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New Wording On "Seal of Death"

New MessageNew Wording On "Seal of Death" (modified 0 times) JV12
Just picked up my IO from CUSA today, and contrary to what I've been reading about the seal (i.e. by breaking this seal, you are agreeing to blah blah blah), the seal on my IO box reads:

"By opening this box, you are agreeing to use the i-opener service and paying $21.95 per month for such service. <blah blah blah>.... You also agree and consent to the delivery and transfer of your name, phone number, and address to Netpliance to activate your new i-opener account."

Now I've read that since I bought the unit from CUSA, and they did NOT ask me to sign any TOS contract, that my deal is said and done, regardless of what Netpliance says -- Correct??


Has anyone else bought an IO with the Seal of Death, and have surpassed the 14day return policy from CUSA (or however many days it is for CC)? Has Netpliance contacted you?

07-15-2000 21:03:12

New MessageRE:New Wording On (modified 0 times) Don't+Worry
The new wording was probably intended to be used with the TOS. They finally realized that anyone could open the box w/o breaking the seal and re-worded it in a more logical fashion. In the context of the TOS, it could have been intended as a final warning to the buyer that they could still cancel if they returned the I-Opener before using it and not get stuck with 90 days of service charges. Without a TOS, it can be viewed as a warning that if you let it call home and sign up for service, you have to pay for 90 days. This of couse makes it easier for CUSA and NPLI because they can then simply resell the unit without having to worry about whether it has called home or been registered to a particular user.

As other posters have commented, the sales transaction is between CUSA (or Circuit City) and the buyer. NPLI is going to have a hard time forcing anyone to use/pay for their service if this was not agreed to at the time of the sale.

I know it is a bit of typing, but it would help if you could post the exact language of the sticker for those of us who haven't seen it. Without the entire language, I don't know if it also has the stuff about the $499 fee if you don't purchase the service for 90 days. Again, this is probably not something you agreed to when you paid your $99.

As a practical matter, what is NPLI going to do to force anyone to sign up? How will they know whether you will ever open the box if you don't let it phone home? You might be a collector or be buying it as a gift for someone (perhaps planning ahead for the holidays since NPLI has announced a $399 price!). You might also decide to wait and see if NPLI goes under before signing up.

I have a couple I purchased from Circuit City. If and when NPLI calls, I plan to tell them that I do not wish to buy the service, that I simply purchased a piece of hardware from Circuit City and did not agree to do anything except to pay the $99 plus tax. There is a bit more I will tell them due to provisions of California law.

From the recent posting by badflash, apparently NPLI once again thinks they have made the unit non-hackable by again changing the bios and the Sandisk image. In fact, the are so confident of this that they are letting the stores sell I-Openers w/o a TOS because they can't be used with anyother ISP! Thus, they will probably just try to get you to either sign up for their service or to sell the unit back to them so they can resell it. I do not plan to do either. Of course if they will pay me $1,000.00 per unit, I might consider it!

07-15-2000 22:09:25

New MessageRE:New Wording On (modified 0 times) ioioioinfoioioio
I have not opened the two I most recently bought (one yesterday and one today) so even if there is a REMOTE CHANCE these are unhackable (I REALLY doubt it), I plan on just holding on to these anyway for spare parts if needed. I can sell the 32 meg ram chips at work for $30-$35 for notebook upgrades and sell the Winchip Cpu's with older AT Pentium motherboard's for another $25-$35. That almost pays for itself. Heck I might even be able to get another $5-$10ea for the keyboard. That leaves me with about $35-$45 bucks invested in a LCD display and motherboard parts plus external case plastic for experiments (when I get my hobby room set back up). Also extra wall wart! Not a bad deal! I like it!
07-15-2000 23:31:20

New MessageRE:New Wording On (modified 0 times) Don't Worry
Sorry if I confused anyone. Badflash said that they work fine with the V1 bios. The only problem appears to be a different sound chip.
07-16-2000 07:23:58

New MessageRE:New Wording On (modified 0 times) Turbo3
Here is the exact wording from the new sticker.

"Do not accept if this seal is broken. Please call Netpliance at 1-800-467-3637.

By opening this box, you are agreeing to use the i-opener service and paying $21.95 per month for such service. If you discontinue using the service within 90 days of receipt, you will be charged a deativation fee of $499. You understand that this fee does not apply if the i-opener system is returned within the stated return period, in new condition and with all its components and the seal on the i-opener device intact. You also agree and consent to the delivery and transfer of your name, phone number, and address to Netpliance to activate your new i-opener account."

07-16-2000 15:47:36

New MessageJust Say No! (modified 0 times) Don't+Worry
Thanks for posting the full sticker language.

After reading it, it sure looks like the sticker can only have been intented to be used with a TOS, probably one that was worded similarly to the Terms and Condition of Sale that used to be on the NPLI web site until 7/1/00. While it is now gone from the site, it basically provided that once you received the I/O, you had 30 days to "activate" your service and that if you did not do so and continue to purchase the service for 90 days, you had to pay a $499 "termination fee". The escape clause was that if you returned it within 30 days of purchase in "new condition" the fee did not apply. In effect, you had about 30 days to try out the service with no risk. Perhaps someone who recently signed a TOS at CUSA or CC can confirm that it contained these same or very similar provisions.

Some of the sticker language really makes sense only if it is tied to a TOS. For example, by its terms the "obligation" to use and pay for the service only arises upon the opening of the box. This could be years from now, if ever. The next sentence talks about a "deactivation fee" if you deactivate the service within 90 days of receipt. What if you don't open the box for more than 90 days and thus neither "agree" to start using the service nor "deactivate" it within 90 days of receipt?

Another sentence pertaining to the "deactivation fee" says: "You understand that this fee does not apply if the i-opener system is returned within the stated return period, in new condition and with all its components and the seal on the i-opener device intact." What is the "stated return period" and when does it start to run? Presumably this was intended to refer to the period set forth in the TOS to return the unit without penalty after trying it out.

Then there is the more fundamental question of whether by putting a sticker on the box Netpliance can alter what (without a TOS) is simply a transaction between the buyer and CUSA or Circuit City. Probably at most it serves as a warning that if you sign up for service, you are expected to pay for it for 90 days. Even if you do sign up, there are real questions about whether the $499 "deactivation fee" can be charged if you cancel within 90 days. Netpliance's damages if you don't keep the service for 90 days can't logically exceed the price of 90 days of service.

I will be very surprised if Netpliance actively tries to enforce the sticker language against anyone who did not sign a TOS or activate their account on line. A firm NO from the potential user should be sufficient to get them to stop. If they persist, there will be a huge number of complaints to consumer authorities and a real potential for litigation. NPLI, CUSA and Circuit City don't need or want this.

07-16-2000 20:03:23

New MessageRE:New Wording On (modified 0 times) newseal
Take this, make the font large and print it out, glue it to your box, and all will be OK.

"This seal is broken.

By opening this box, you agreed to modify this i-opener for use without the i-opener service or paying $21.95 per month for such lame overpriced service. You agree you will never be charged a deativation fee of $499. You understand that this fee does not apply.

If the i-opener system is returned within the stated return period, in new condition and with all its components and the seal on the i-opener device intact, you are a idiot.

You also disagree and do not consent to the delivery and transfer of your name, phone number, and address to anyone"

07-17-2000 07:34:42

New MessageRE:New Wording On (modified 0 times) Spike
Well, it already has been 90 days since NPLI started kicking around the idea of a TOS. Surely there must be a few people who ordered directly from NPLI that defiantly modified their I-Openers, or failed to sign up for the service. I haven't yet heard of even one instance of NPLI attempting to collect the $499.00 termination fee.
07-17-2000 11:23:26

New MessageRE:New Wording On (modified 0 times) little man
Some big dude came to my door last night and demanded $500 or he would break my legs. He said I couldn't tell anyone or he would come back. Gave him $500 and he left. Hasn't been back since, hope he doesn't find out I posted here.
I didn't know the TOS included a intimidation clause, that sucks.
07-17-2000 12:33:22

New MessageRE:New Wording On (modified 0 times) codeman
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'you will be charged a deativation fee of $499'

how can they charge a you 'deativation fee'
if you never 'activated' it in the first place.
we all know the unit does not work at all till you dial in to
activate it(sign up for service).
so just dont sign up for service .

codeman

07-17-2000 15:53:26

New MessageRE:New Wording On (modified 0 times) npwankers
by reading this post, you agree ...............

And DON'T tear those tags off your mattress or pillows, or else you are in deep legal sh*t.

07-17-2000 18:26:43

New MessageRE:New Wording On (modified 0 times) Don't_Worry
Codeman ... that is exactly right.

I find it hard to imagine that anyone who didn't want the service would sign up for it -- at least if they have ever bothered to read this fine board. By now, they should know not to let the unit phone home if they are going to hack it!

Thanks by the way for this board and for your efforts to keep adding new sections as new internet applicances crop up. And thanks for your efforts on the Web Pal. Mine was about to be written off until I saw your recent posts.

07-17-2000 18:28:20

New MessageRE:New Wording On (modified 0 times) trader15@hotmail.com
Well, I've got a Iopener which has a blank screen after I switch around the bios that was working with the one from BadFlash. I'm looking to sell it off . It comes together with a USB ethernet, 4 port USB powered HUB , 1 USB Web cam. Imod2 kit . I'm looking to sell the whole thingy at above $200, I paid more than 200+++ for it. Socket has been previously replaced by codeman and was working before I start switching the bios around. Email me if you are interested. I just don't have the time for it anymore !
07-18-2000 15:49:42

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