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Does V5 Bios work in V4?

New MessageDoes V5 Bios work in V4? (modified 0 times) richost
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Ok, I know this is a dumb question, However, I did use extensive search on all the boards (key words bios v4 v5 and badflash, various combinations), but could not find an answer, so please don't flame me.

If using a chip purchased from badflash, on a V4, can you use a V5 chip? Or do you need to use a V1 chip? Or are you better off doing a flash yourself

09-27-2000 06:55:40

New MessageRE:Does V5 Bios work in V4? (modified 0 times) redwood
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maybe you need to ask Jack but...
he flashed my V5 chips, _befor the sound upgrades.... then, I was able to reflash to get sound... but, befor he flashed them, I was UNable to do anything with them (chips from V5)....
09-27-2000 08:47:20

New MessageRE:Does V5 Bios work in V4? (modified 0 times) richost
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Reread my original post, and I want to make sure I explaine dthe situation correctly:

I have a V4. Can I install a badflash V5 bios chip or should I use a V1 bios chip. The idea is to avoid flashing, and go the easy route.

09-27-2000 09:44:59

New MessageRE:Does V5 Bios work in V4? (modified 0 times) ballast
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Yes, you can... It does say that somewhere - I am using a V5 chip on a V3. There is some discussion somewhere on this board about how the V5 chip seems to work better in recognising hard drives. But there is soooo much information here now that it can be hard to find anything (even with search).
09-27-2000 10:18:44

New MessageRE:Does V5 Bios work in V4? (modified 0 times) Wild_Pencil
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The V5 Patched BIOS will work on any I-Opener. (V1 through V5).

It was released to the public under the assumption that it would only be of useful benefit to those with actual V5 sound hardware.. V4 and previous versions are fully functional with the V1 BIOS.

There's a sticky copyright issue with the V5 Patched BIOS that's sorta-justified like this: It's acceptable to use a V5 Patched BIOS on a V5 IOpener, since the machine came with the original V5 BIOS. Someone just went in and fixed the V5's crippling bugs -- like the non-functional Setup Screen and the QNX Partition Checks.

Nobody requested a V2 through V4 Patched BIOS (to be in-line with the copyright justification above) so that's why no such version was created. People were happy to use the V1 BIOS since it was so easy to obtain and flash.

For some reason or other, people liked the V5 Patched version better than the V1 version -- at first because the Boot-Logo screen was removed to make it look more PC-Like. Later, others also reported that the V5 BIOS is much better at auto-detecting hard-drives that were "stubborn" with the V1 version.


Anyways.. to answer your question.. it's your choice -- both versions will work. Be sure to disable the "OnBoard Sound" setting in the V5 Patched version if you go with that one.

09-27-2000 14:51:40

New MessageRE:Does V5 Bios work in V4? (modified 0 times) IOYOU
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Wild_Pencil: Dude, I am qouting your statement "Nobody requested a V2 through V4 Patched BIOS (to be in-line with the copyright justification above) so that's why no such version was created." Well, perhaps the following link will enlighten your statement:

http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=technical&Post=1591&Idle=0&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=2&Session=

What do ya think, Wild_Pencil? It looks like such a question has been asked, but flames were all received ...

09-28-2000 06:07:10

New MessageRE:Does V5 Bios work in V4? (modified 0 times) Wild_Pencil
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Aha, good catch -- I must've missed that thread.

Keep an eye out on fr-EE-drive.. I have a feeling a patched V2-4 BIOS may show up there..

09-28-2000 13:00:12

New MessageRE:Does V5 Bios work in V4? (modified 0 times) starfish
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Wild_Pencil

Many Thanks. Like I have Always Said,
"The HardWare is Only as Good as the SoftWare"

Would you care to Comment on the Differences from the V1BIOS Images
I have used in the past, to the Patched V234BIOS Image ?
I assume the Splash Screen is Removed ?
Is Booting from CD Enabled ???
(would asking nicely help ?)
Do you think this has different legal issues ?

* StarFish *

09-29-2000 22:08:18

New MessageRE:Does V5 Bios work in V4? (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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The patch V5 bios works just fine in my V3, V4 and V5 machines. My experience is that it works better at detecting hard drives in auto avoiding the need to set up odd formatting configurations. I have seen no difference in any other way. Sound works fine in all I-O's.

I've had a couple of hacker lawyers look at this issue as well as the author of the V1 bios. As far as the legal issues are concerned, without the splash screen there is nothing in the BIOS that belongs to NPLI. AWARD bios files are freely distributed by AWARD, and they are the only copyright holders to the file. If you notice, I require no disclaimer for the V5 bios chips. The V1 (which I will shortly discontinue) requires a disclaimer only due to the splash screen containing the I-Opener logo.

10-03-2000 08:39:35

New MessageRE:Does V5 Bios work in V4? (modified 0 times) cyrixone
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Hey BadFlash, why not just use the Award BIOS utils (cbrom I believe) and remove the logo from the v1 BIOS? I did it myself on all my I-Openers I reflashed... Out with the logo, out with Netpliance's "copyright". :) Plus, I like how it makes the I-Opener look more like a real computer with a normal bootscreen.

And for those who like the "Nothing But Net" logo, it's not too hard for them to use cbrom to put the logo back on the modified v5 BIOS.

10-03-2000 20:18:20

New MessageRE:Does V5 Bios work in V4? (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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There is no reason to go to the trouble of doing anything to the V1 bios. Why bother when the V5 patched bios works better on all I-Openers? That way I only need to worry about one file.
10-04-2000 05:28:26

New MessageRE:Does V5 Bios work in V4? (modified 0 times) Wild_Pencil
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Award doesn't distribute its BIOSes freely. It licenses specific versions to OEMs, and these OEMs may distribute the BIOSes that they've licensed as they see fit.

As the End-User, you are granted a license to use a specific BIOS version as "flashed in" by Netpliance. Since Netpliance hasn't made any BIOS upgrades available to End-Users, it can be argued that any deviation from that specific BIOS version would violate the license as granted by Netpliance. (You're violating Netpliance's license to you, not Award's license to Netpliance)

By using a "Patched" version of the same BIOS, you could argue that someone just went in and fixed the bugs in the code that was already licensed to you.

By using a Version that didn't come with your machine (V1 or V5 on a V2,V3, or V4, for example), you are using an unauthorized and unlicensed copy of the BIOS.

It's doubtful that you'd get caught and sent to court for using an unauthorized version, sure. It's more a matter of Ethics, and I'd hope that there are at least a handful of Hackers who can hold themselves up to a higher standard.

The reason the CDROM-Bootable version will never be released is because (unfortunately) there are too many people who are happy to see Netpliance die -- only to get a cheap and valuable machine out of the whole ordeal. Having a CD-Boot feature would only increase the value of these machines -- thus increasing the satisfaction of watching Netpliance die and scoring all these extra-value machines.

Besides, how can people call themselves "Hackers" if they can't figure out how to work around a problem? If you're gonna screw over a company like Netpliance, at least put some effort into it.

10-06-2000 13:09:07

New MessageRE:Does V5 Bios work in V4? (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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AWARD does distribute their bios images freely. They have a download site that I use for a last resort for customers that have a bios string, but don't know where to get a download and the company is dead. I have had quite a few lawyers go over this issue and they all come back the same. Every motherboard maker out there freely distributes updates.

NPLI did not grant a liciences for the bios software directly or indirectly. I don't think they ever paid for it, but I may be wrong. The V1 image makes it pretty clear on boot up that they didn't own any rights then. Look at the "for evaluation only" info. Look over your paperwork and see if you see anything about the bios. Maybe I missed it. All I see is a hacking clause. If you had no agreement with NPLI there propbably isn't much to violate. In any event, the copyright holder is AWARD. You can't violate a licience unless you enter into an agreement. You can violate a copyright but that really doesn't appear to be an issue here. John Rohner (who wrote the V1 bios) had some interesting insights. I can't share them, but I can assure you that we are on retty solid legal ground, or I wouldn't be involved with it. I've paid several lawyers to look into this who are experts on intellectual property rights, and the answers all come back the same. The only thing any of the suggested was to do away with the NPLI splash screen because NPLI has the copyright to that.

NPLI's basic buisness model is flawed. They attempted to make prisoners of their customers rather than friends. That has failed everyplace it has been tried. Had they charged more for the machine, less for the internet service, and supported an upgrade path (which they would sell to folks who wanted it), they probably would have made it.

10-07-2000 15:47:20

New MessageRE:Does V5 Bios work in V4? (modified 0 times) Wild_Pencil
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I'd love to know where to get these BIOSes as freely distributed by Phoenix/Award. Everytime I check their site, I get a link to http://www.unicore.com where I can purchase the latest and greatest version available for my machines. Phoenix/Award has always (to my knowledge) asserted the following: http://www.phoenix.com/pcuser/BIOS/bios-refer.html


Phoenix Technologies, which has merged with Award Software, develops custom BIOS's and other software for computer manufacturers. These manufactures then modify the software to fit the particular requirements of their product lines. They do not inform Phoenix of the changes they make. Computer manufacturers may add or modify standard features, and may add code to support totally unique features. Due to these modifications, Phoenix is unable to sell or distribute upgrades or replacements for BIOS or other software directly to PC users.

The original manufacturer is the best source of upgrades and assistance. Please contact your system or motherboard manufacturer to determine if BIOS upgrades are available.


I'd love to get my hands on the latest and greatest BIOS for my older Lab machines whose manufacture no longer exists. Please let us know.

10-08-2000 18:31:04

New MessageRE:Does V5 Bios work in V4? (modified 0 times) BadFlash
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Just a few weeks ago I was able to download from http://www.award.com.tw/download

It isn't working tonight. They may have taken them down, or the could just be fixing the site. It would be a pity if it wasn't there any more.

10-11-2000 19:26:04

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