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Home / I-Opener Areas / I-Opener General Posts OT Could anyone make one of these? N2IT FinalScratch hardware (read on...)

OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) beatniks3 Profile http://www-classic.be.com/aboutbe/pressreleases/98-11-16_scratch.html hello all, well i just posted this question over at anandtech.com. i am looking for a way to build this product. this forum houses some of the most intelligent hardware hackers on the internet. the things that we have done together on this forum are amazing. i have two i-openers and making the most of the system with various mods has become a hobby for me. one of my other hobbies is music. the above link tells a little about the product i am hoping to making with your help. the makers N2IT used to have a website that went into more detail about the product and had pictures. it was basically a piece of hardware that allowed a person to attach two turntables to two soundcards in a system running BeOs. does anyone have any ideas? sorry that this is off topic. but if anyone could do it, it would the faithful readers of this forum! email me at beatniks3 @ yahoo.com (take the spaces out of course.) thanks, beatniks3 ...escalation is only a puerile game left to the military 02-24-2001 15:23:02

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) Programmer Profile it's software.. the specially prepared records have positioning information encoded as audio, which is fed into the computer via mic input. the software on the computer analyzes the input and calculates the speed and direction, then translates that to commands to issue to the editing software. 02-26-2001 07:16:11

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) beatniks3 Profile thanks for the response Programmer, you make it sound so easy! i would love if you could say more about the subject. any idea on how one would make the needed record? and how would one go about making the software to interact with the BeOs and SoundPlay, the program that actually plays the mp3. this would be really cool at a party. have one turntable playing regular records and the other hooked into an i-opener! i have already done the audio out mod and i saw the directions for audio in. anyone and everyone please respond. feel free to contact me at my yahoo email address if you think you could set this up for me. i am just a poor college student but i could trade you some useful i-opener parts or something for your time. beatniks3. 02-26-2001 10:47:21

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) Programmer Profile If I were to make something like this I would probably encode the track as a palindromic number and the position as a volume level. if the volume increases, then the disc is playing forwards, if the volume decreases, then the disc is playing backwards. if there is no sound input then the needle is lifted, if there is sound input then play back whatever is associated with the specific track number track one prepared for recording at 78 rpm should look something like this 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 03 00 00 00 00 00 03 00 00 00 00 .. 00 00 00 00 FF 00 00 00 00 00 FF 00 00 00 00 record to disc at 78 rpm played back at the 45 rpm it will give you 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 .. 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00 00 played back at a slower speed 33 rpm will give you 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 .. 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF FF FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF FF FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 and track two prepared for recording at 78 rpm should look something like this 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 03 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 03 00 00 00 .. 00 00 00 FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF 00 00 00 record to disc at 78 rpm played back at the 45 rpm it will give you 00 00 00 00 00 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 01 00 00 00 .. 00 00 00 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 played back at a slower speed 33 rpm will give you 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 .. 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00 00 02-26-2001 13:52:44

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) beatniks3 Profile Programmer, i think that the recommendations you have suggested are dead on. i only wish more forum users had things to say. i spoke with the local dj shop in town (madison, wi) about pressing a record with the marks or notches in it. they said that they can make a temporary record that would last ~50 times for $40. they would just need a cd-r with the markings or notches on it. please reply with more ideas or send along an email. thanks, beatniks3. 02-26-2001 14:21:18

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) Programmer Profile From this point, you have all of the information you need to make the recording.. I would recommend creating a wav file and experimenting with spacing out the sounds. you will still need to write the software (or have someone write it on your behalf) if you aren't a programmer, you can probably find a few in the Computer Science department at your college.. If you talk to a programming instructor about it, she may be willing to ask her class if there is anyone who would like to do it as a project. 02-27-2001 07:59:47

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) beatniks3 Profile thanks again Programmer for your help, that is a very good idea about asking the computer science program at my school. my old roommate is a comp sci. major, so i'll ask him to help. i only know very basic level java programming. i'll keep you posted what i find out. have a good day. beatniks3. 02-27-2001 10:22:18

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) SteveInNC Profile Hmm, I'm a software guy, but I think I'd try some hardware for this solution. Rather than custom-recording records to get timing data, I'd be inclined to add a shaft encoder to the turntable. This gives you positional, rate, and directional data in digital form, and doesn't wear out. For simulated needle placement, another encoder on the needle arm pivot gives angular position (track position on "record"), and a microswitch would yield needle up/down state. Doing it this way eliminates all wear, and yields consistent digital output for the software to deal with. Just another approach... 02-27-2001 16:26:44

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) beatniks3 Profile SteveInNC, i think that a hardware solution has potential as well. i remember looking at dj programs for linux and seeing a web page that described how to modify a turntable and a mouse so that the mouse was able to keep track of the motions of the record. i have been looking for a while, but i can't seem to find that page again. i wonder if perhaps an optical mouse set just above the record might work for this situation? thank you both SteveInNC and Programmer. How hard would it be to write a program that would interpret the data sent back by the mouse? or is there a better hardware solution for tracking the movements of the record? this gets more and more interesting by the day...beatniks3 02-28-2001 07:02:59

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) Programmer Profile the only mechanical piece that would be (more) difficult to implement is the track sensing. If you wanted to, you could do the entire thing with optical.. instead of making an LP with the encoding, get a CueCat, nueter it, mount it on the arm near the needle, and print circular barcodes on a piece of paper. then all you have to do is intercept the keyboard input, decode it and issue commands to the decoding software.. (note that this approach will require somewhat different encoding to compensate for the inability to detect speed changes. 02-28-2001 07:27:34

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) beatniks3 Profile Programmer, the cuecat is an interesting idea. i wonder if i can still pick one from the local radio shack. i have a question though about the inability to detect differences in speed. why couldn't the program that would be made count the number of 'cues' per amount of time? wouldn't that give a new number for changes in speed? perhaps i am thinking of this all backward. would the cuecat be BeOs compatible? or should this be a windows project? thanks for all your help, beatniks3 02-28-2001 09:35:53

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) Programmer Profile you would have to calculate the timing with the software. The cuecat will read the same data (track/direction information) no matter what speed it passes over the data (as long as it isn't Too fast or too slow). You'd have 5 conditions.. 1) no data coming in (needle up) 2) track/position information coming in at (33r * number of barcodes)pm 3) track/position information coming in at (45r * number of barcodes)pm 4) track/position information coming in at (78r * number of barcodes)pm 5) track/position information coming in at scratch rates the number of barcodes would very much depend on how many you can physically fit and how able the cuecat is to read the data at 78rpm a neutered cuecat will work on any platform. 02-28-2001 10:16:53

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) beatniks3 Profile thanks, thanks, thanks! i have some experimenting to do. please share more thoughts...i will post more information as i get it...this thing seems within reach. the one major advantage to the hardware approach (at least as i see it, please correct me if i am wrong) is not having to press the record. beatniks3. 02-28-2001 10:36:02

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) Programmer Profile the resolution of position is better with the disc, and it doesn't require any hardware or hardware modifications. ease of programming is better with the cuecat, or a custom hardware solution. Any EE student should be able to help you make a custom hardware solution, perhaps something that runs over the serial port and reports when something changes.. but that's not nearly as funky (or cheap) as having a 'cat or your spin table.. 02-28-2001 13:03:40

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) SteveInNC Profile Of mice and turntables... A mechanical mouse typically has two shaft encoders in in it: one for horizontal and one for vertical movement. Unlike positional encoders, these usually just indicate that the shaft is turning one way or the other. The system software (or possibly additional hardware) counts the transitions +/- and increments/decrements the cursor position. Rate can be determined by totalling transitions over a set period of time. A cheap hack approach to this would be to get a mechanical mouse, rip it apart to get the two encoders, mount one on the turntable drive shaft, or possibly drive it via a belt around the table, then mount the other on the tonearm pivot, or again, possibly off of an attached lever, then mount the mouse button as an arm up/down switch. Wire back to the original mouse cable as if it were still a mouse. Now your program can simply sample the supposed-cursor position and mouse state to give you input. "scratching" the turntable will appear as forward/backward movement of the mouse in the given axis, moving the tone arm will appear as movement in the other axis (possibly not of sufficient resolution for your purposes), and the mouse button indicates arm up/down. The OS should have some method of sampling the mouse, and might possibly even maintain rate data. BeOS is designed for multimedia and should be able to handle this in real-time (I was a member of the BeOS Developer Program, although I haven't messed with it in a while). One caveat would be that the OS may limit the retained cursor position to screen boundaries (ie - if you scroll all the way left, the count may stop at the screen boundary). BeOS likely has a low level routine to return raw mouse event data, or may even allow interrupt-driven callbacks at each encoder tick. Couple that with a realtime clock interrupt, at a reasonably short repeating time interval, and you can accumulate rate data yourself. The above can be tested for roughly the cost of a ten dollar el cheapo mouse. If it doesn't work out, no great loss. The last version of BeOS I played with could be booted from within the Windows file system, so you don't even need to create new partitions et al. 02-28-2001 22:48:45

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) beatniks3 Profile Of mice and turntables... 'can i touch the rabbits, george?' SteveInNC, i have had the personal BeOs that you could download for free running on my computer before too. you guys would laugh your heads off if you could see the computer (desktop petium133, no case cover) that i have right to use right now; i don't even have 500mb worth of harddrive space to spare!my friend jokingly calls it the MIR. but i hope to be getting new computer soon and one of the things that i am making sure to have is BeOs compatible hardware. when i tried BeOs before, my soundcard was not compatible, so i wasn't even able to hear its playback capibilities. i will try today to get a cuecat and a turntable. i have the mouse already. have i said thanks yet? well, thank you (and Programmer) for the help. i am by nature much better with the hands-on part of any project; it was what made the i-opener project so fun in my opinion. i now have a more clear understanding of what must go on in the programming side. would someone please correct me if i am wrong in thinking that this 'raw data' accumlating would then be the data that determined the output of the mp3 playback? i am thinking that you could have a prearragned playlist for every show, and then make a program so that text input from the keyboard would select a new record when the 'needle' was up. 'V' for vandyke record.mp3, 'O' for oakenfold set.mp3, etc. sorry to jump around with my questions, but is there anything sound production wise that i would be missing if i used the free personal edition over the pro version? well, i have some work to get done, must start by clearing a hole in my desk. i have some webspace and cheapo digital camera, so when i've got something worth showing, I'll pass along a link. hopefully very soon. beatniks3 03-02-2001 11:26:42

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) starfish Profile I would suggest forgetting the :CueCat @ least for your First Prototype ! Weather Hacked or not, this is a BarCoder Reader. This stand-alone System will Only Output Legal BarCodes (a quite zone followed by a few, fixed numbers of characters & another quite zone, fitting it's Rules for Legal ! ) I would Think You could Tap the Detector & get Black or White Pulses. You would have to Interface this into the Computer. You Still wouldn't have Direction ! & Focus would be a Concern ! The Old Mice with the Shaft Encoders would be My First Choice. I would Shoot for the DB9 (serial port) version. I think you will find More Software & You could still have a System Mouse (PS/2) Plus with 2 Serial Ports, You Could have a 2nd Table ? ( Would You Want a 2nd table ???) While Emailing could be Faster? Don't Think You are Boring AnyBody (they can Stop Reading the Thread If it is of No Interest to them) & You will have More Ideas & Help If You keep Posting. (Your in The Right Area of the BBS) 03-02-2001 17:55:59

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) beatniks3 Profile hello all, is there anyone who could tell me how i could set up a simple program so that i could see my mouse cordinates as i move my cursor? using win98 for right now. seeing the numbers while i work on the protype would really help me visualize the programming part of this task. i picked up a cuecat from radio shack yesterday and asked to sign up from the msn one month trial, risk-free if i cancel before 30 days. i read on a deal forum that you get a twenty dollar credit if you sign up, and sure enough it worked. walked out with a new pair of stereo headphones and a longer phone cord. after trying the cutcat, i don't really think it will be that useful. it is just too sensitive. i took apart an old serial mouse and looked at it closely for the first time. looks really promising. hope someone can reply, even briefly, to help me with mouse cordinates. oh, and i have what maybe a pretty silly question to some of you guys, but would i be reworking the drivers for the mouse to incorporate there being no screen edges? as always, thanks in advance. beatniks3 --starfish, thank you for the suggestions. i think that the serial mouse is the way to go as far as mice go. ...escalation is only a puerile game left to the military 03-03-2001 18:55:04

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) Programmer Profile http://bethie.net/~programmer/mousetrack.zip contains vb source and an executable that shows the mouses current position, and makes the mouse roll to the other side of the screen.. windows only.. you'll need the vb6 runtime.. 03-05-2001 07:49:07

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) beatniks3 Profile thanks Programmer for the link. should work great for now. another question for you all. i took apart an old mechanical mouse and i was looking at the little wheels in it. there are what looks like little leds next to them. are they used for tracking purposes? thanks all. beatniks3 03-05-2001 11:57:01

RE:OT Could anyone make one of these? (modified 0 times) Programmer Profile the little leds are part of a pair one shines light and the other (on the other side of the wheel) detects light. when the wheel turns, serial data is produced at the detector, which is used to determine the movement of the cursor on the computer screen an explanation of the serial stream is here http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=mouse.htm&url=http://www.4qd.co.uk/faq/meece.html 03-05-2001 14:19:27

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