I-Appliance BBS
The Official Source for Internet Appliance Upgrades and Mods

Click Here!
BBS Main List | Sign In | Sign Up | Search | Help | Linux-Hacker.netReply to Thread | Printer |

Home / I-Opener Areas / I-Opener General Posts
OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read.
defies identification

New MessageOK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) bitbyte
Profile
ok... before I get started, I have searched and read and searched some more and read some more... etc etc ad nauseum. So, if you are only here to thumb your nose at me because you know and I don't, and to flame me... kindly drive thru. I'm not an idiot or some technical neophyte, and I'll thank you in advance not to treat me like one.
<phew> :)

Now, I recently purchased a couple of I-opener's.

The first one I'm relatively vertain is a v5. (No goop, IDE intact, Rise 266, Blue bootup screen with "iopener" in it, Female intro voice, torx screws, ship date of 2000/09/14) I don't recall what sound it has, if it's imperative I will pull it apart and have another look. I read on badflash that "If your IOPENER boots with a BLUE SCREEN that just says IOPENER you need this chip to load your hard drive." Is that my only option apart from buying/building a bios programmer?


The second one, however, I can't seem to figure out. First off, it's a refurb. Here's what's in it.
No Goop
Black bootup Screen with "iopener" on it.
No Intro Voice (or intro it seems, not sure if that means it's already "dialed home")
No Torx
Winchip 200mhz
IDE intact
Yamaha Sound
Cyberblade i7
Ship Date of 2000/08/31 (Don't know if that was after refurb or before)
Can't get into the bios or get it to show a date or anything. Not certain if I am hitting the right keys in the right sequence to get to it. So many different key combo's are described in so many different posts it's hard to know what exactly works and what doesn't. A miss is a good as a mile.

I'd really appreciate any help on this. While I am relatively new to iopeners, I'm not new to computers or electronics.

02-11-2002 21:55:12

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) *SF*
Profile
> you need (a New BIOS) chip to (Boot to) your hard drive.
> Is that my only option apart from buying/building a bios programmer?

Well, You might be able to fake a Sandisk on the Winchip,
then use that system to flash the V5.
But, I have to recommend pulling a chip & having BadFlash reprogram it for You.
Then You could Flash your other Yourself.

There are a few motherboards that use the same socket, You could use.

A Thread on the QNX / Sansdisk Hack.

& Thanks for using The General Forum, * StarFish *

02-11-2002 22:43:38

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) oldman
Profile | Email
it is not really important to know what version you have.

it's nice, but not necessary.

you just have to deal with the hardware you find in your i-o to do what mod you want to do.

if it has a winchip cpu and boots from a hard drive, it will take some work to change to a faster cpu.

if the bios is glued in, it will take some work to remove the bios or flash in the unit.

if it has a rise cpu, a pentium mmx, 200mhz or faster, will drop in. windows sound will not work with the rise cpu. change switches or jumper between pads for amd cpu's

badflash's patched ver 5 bios will work in any version.

there is enough info in most of the threads for each mod described on this board to be able to do the mod on any version i-o. you just need to be able to identify what is where on your i-o main board and read what changes are required to do the mod. many of the threads have photos that help greatly.

some experience with electronics helps.

have fun


oldman
02-11-2002 23:11:43

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) *SF*
Profile
another good old thread
During boot sequence, press Ctrl+Alt+Esc to get to the bios setup
You need a PS/2 splitter that is labeled Mouse & Keyboard,
MOST need to be plugged into the Wrong Ports !
02-11-2002 23:55:45

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) *SF*
Profile
Random Annoyances (v5's and used I-Openers) cyrixone 01-01-2001 07:38:42

First, a quick rundown on I-Opener versions, in case you're new and don't know the version scheme:
v1 - original I-Opener with Winchip and BIOS that boots any OS. QNX exploits (hacking the built in OS) work. Demo has a male voice.
v2 - Updated BIOS that only boots QNX, glued into socket. Hardware and software wise same as v1.
v3 - Same as v2 except holes in QNX patched and demo has a female voice.
v3b - A v3 with Torx screws in the base instead of philips.
v4 - Torx screws, same QNX as the v3 series, CPU is now a Rise PR266, BIOS is no longer glued down. Screen is now Hitachi instead of Sharp.
v4b - a v4 with the voltage adjustment switch above the SODIMM slot. VERY RARE, but I've seen it!
v5 - Same as a v4b but with AD1881 audio instead of the Yamaha OPL3SA. New BIOS that does not let you get into setup, and will not boot prior versions of the QNX software.

02-12-2002 01:09:22

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) bitbyte
Profile
*SF*:

<You need a PS/2 splitter that is labeled Mouse & Keyboard,MOST need to be plugged into the Wrong Ports !>

AHA! So NEED to have that splitter on even if at this point I don't need the mouse functionality?
http://www.linux-hacker.net/imod/ps2.html shows the pinout for the splitter. I assumed that since my keyboard only needed it's signals it would ignore the rest of the mouse connections. But since you are telling me that in most cases they need to be reversed, I'm confused as to why my keyboard works once the iopener has booted. Does the fact that it (unit 2) has no intro mean that it has dialed in and received some sort of update which would preclude me from getting into the BIOS at this point? or is there some other level of functionality that I'm unaware of that I would gain by using this splitter in the reversed fashion you described? If it HAS received the upgrade, wouldnt that make the bios a v5 and shouldnt it have a blue screen now instead of a black one during the boot sequence?

<During boot sequence, press Ctrl+Alt+Esc to get to the bios setup>
I have also read about doing TAB+4(4 times) etc in various different flavors, what does this refer to then?

<First, a quick rundown on I-Opener versions, in case you're new and don't know the version scheme: ...>
I have seen that description of the different versions, but it raises various questions as to whether things mentioned in later versions were omitted intentinally or by accident on earlier versions, and were they due to them being present or not.
eg. <v5 - Same as a v4b but with AD1881 audio instead of the Yamaha OPL3SA.>
No mention of a Yamaha sound chip is made regarding the earler versions. Which leads me to ask if they ALL had yamaha sound prior to v5? or just some? are there other sound chips other than the yamaha and the one in the v5? I've read varioous posts which discussed dificulties with getting sounds going and compatibility issues with Windows, is this because they were different chipsets? or due to other factors such as the bios itself?

See what I mean? i refuse to make any assumptions on things because in this arena, that's a very dangerous thing to do. Lack of information in a description doesn't mean it shouldn't necessarily be there.

oldman:
<it is not really important to know what version you have.>
I realize that I don't NEED to know what version I have, but the point of this excercise (for me) is not so much to just buy parts and stuff them in, it's a learning experience and this would be part of it. In the future it might be valuable to know what the history of the machine is.

<if it has a winchip cpu and boots from a hard drive, ...>
I don't know, at present, if it will boot with a harddrive or not. I don't have the cable for a laptop drive and my drive is on the way. If I can determine exactly what the level of functionality is prior to placing an order with badflash for parts, I can save paying multiple shipping charges unnecesarily (hey, I'm tight, so sue me!). If it's determined that unit 2 has received an update, does that mean it won't boot any longer from a harddrive and that I have little choice but to purchased a flashed bios from badflash?

I do have an img file for flashing a BIOS, what equipment would I need to do so? Is there a simple programmer I can build to accomplish this? (I have built various eeprom programmers in the past for Atmel chips for very little cost.)

<if it has a rise cpu, a pentium mmx, 200mhz or faster, will drop in.>
Any speed over 200? or is there a ceiling? Do all the core voltages and multiplers stay the same on those mmx's or do I also need to modify the jumpers?

I've primarily read about people putting AMD k62+ 450 in there as the preferred chip, is this due to availability or a higher degree of functionality/flexibility?

Thanks for all the friendly help.
bitbyte

02-12-2002 09:02:54

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) *SF*
Profile
> You need a PS/2 splitter that is labeled Mouse & Keyboard,
> MOST need to be plugged into the Wrong Ports !
The Stock Keyboard doesn't have an ESC Key. You Need to use Another Keyboard.
The Pinout on the PS/2 Port in the I-Opener has The "Mouse Clock & Data Signals"
& "Keyboard Clock & Data Signals" Swapped from the "Normal Standard".
But a Few other Vendors do this so this is a GRAY AREA.
You can go in Many Directions Here, I sent You the Popular Way that has the Most success.
If Your Other Keyboard works without a Splitter ???

> TAB+4(4 times)
pops up a QNX Window with a V1/2? Sandisk Image.

> Which leads me to ask if they ALL had yamaha sound prior to v5?
YES
> I refuse to make any assumptions on things because in this arena,
> that's a very dangerous thing to do.
NO, Nothing Dangerous concerning Sound here.

> flashing a BIOS, Is there a simple programmer I can build to accomplish this?
Is This Your Real Goal ???
Get 1 I-Opener to Boot from a Hard Drive & You can Flash all of the Chips You Want !

> (hey, I'm tight, so sue me!).
You Want to Do Something ? Make Your Own IDE Cable !
\ http://yourpage.blazenet.net/starfish/images/iopener.htm
( & Learn to make Your Links Clickable )

> Lack of information in a description doesn't mean it shouldn't necessarily be there.
TRUE, But We are Lucky to have the Info that People have spent the Time to Post !
I haven't read Anyone Owns every Version,
& has Done everything to each,
I have V3, V4b, V5
But I am really only using one in my Car as a MP3 Player & GPS now.
& I hacked mine a long time ago.

I suggest You Focus on one thing @ a Time & We Work on that.
I ASSUME getting into your BIOS & Booting a Hard Drive is First ???
But it could be Helpful to Also tell me Your Final Goal Here ?

02-12-2002 11:40:16

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) Linuxguru
Profile | Email
> AHA! So NEED to have that splitter on even if at this point I don't need the mouse functionality?

Not necessarily. Most PS/2 keyboards will work when just plugged into the IO without a splitter.

> I have also read about doing TAB+4(4 times) etc in various different flavors, what does this refer to then?

To get into the BIOS, you have to use one of the standard sequences (CTRL + ALT + ESC, DEL, CTRL + ALT + S, etc.). This is a prerequisite for changing the settings to allow a hard disk to boot. However, a V5 BIOS will not allow you into the setup screens, and will have to be physically removed and flashed elsewhere. Luckily, this is not difficult, since the epoxy was omitted on V5.

The TAB-4444 sequence was to get to a shell prompt in QNX. It is relevant for V2, V3 and V4, but only after you have already booted from a hard disk containing the modified V2 QNX image. Then, you can login as root, and run QNXflash to flash the BIOS back to V1, and proceed.

> I realize that I don't NEED to know what version I have, but the point of this excercise (for me) is not so much to just buy parts and stuff them in, it's a learning experience and this would be part of it. In the future it might be valuable to know what the history of the machine is.

Very good! There is far more information on this website than I could possibly condense in a single post, but you could begin by going through the early postings dating from March 2000 or even earlier.

In your case, your unit is a V1, V2 or V3. However, if it has been refurbished, the BIOS may have been updated to prevent the use of the techniques originally developed here, to downgrade it to a V1 BIOS.

The version numbering is simply a convention that we adopted to easily distinguish between the slight variants that appeared from time to time, as Netpliance tried to shut out the end-users from repurposing (i.e. hacking) the machine for running other OSes and using other ISPs, followed just as quickly by clever reverse engineering by the hackers (in the good sense of the word) here to restore the status quo. It helped to have a common nomenclature to understand what we were talking about.

>I do have an img file for flashing a BIOS, what equipment would I need to do so? Is there a simple programmer I can build to accomplish this? (I have built various eeprom programmers in the past for Atmel chips for very little cost.)

You can flash it in another I-Opener with a V1 BIOS, running DOS & AWDFlash from a hard disk. But this requires hot unplugging and replacing a PLCC chip. Not recommended for a newbie, but should be a piece of cake for you. All usual caveats apply.

> Any speed over 200? or is there a ceiling? Do all the core voltages and multiplers stay the same on those mmx's or do I also need to modify the jumpers?

There are 2 kinds of IOs here: Those without a split-plane supply to the socket (V1, V2, some V3s), and those with (some V3s, V4, V5).

The latter are relatively easy to upgrade with better CPUs (AMD K6-II+/III+/2P, Intel P200 MMX). The core voltages most definitely need modification, and in some cases the FSB speeds and multipliers also.

> I've primarily read about people putting AMD k62+ 450 in there as the preferred chip, is this due to availability or a higher degree of functionality/flexibility?

Combination of availability, functionality and flexibility. It was inexpensive, ran relatively cool, had 128k L2 cache, had terrific performance, and its clock multiplier could be set on the fly by software.

02-12-2002 14:32:01

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) oldman
Profile | Email
since you say you are not new to computers or electronics, i tried to keep my reply simple.

the differences between versions are not very big. they all have almost identical main boards, they all use the same VIA chipset.

early versions used WINCHIP cpu, later ones hade cpu's made by 'RISE'.

all but the last version used a Yamaha sound chip, the last has a Analog Devices one in a different place.

without extreme modification, the only cpu change for WINCHIP is another WINCHIP.

the RISE cpu required dual voltages that happen to be the same as Pentium MMX. (you can run a fast cpu slower, but it is tougher to run a slow cpu faster). as far as i know pemtium mmx was only made to 233mhz.

the dual voltage changes on the main board allow the core cpu voltage to be changed further, making it possible to use AMD cpu's. the bus speed can also be changed on the last version to allow faster cpu's. once there was almost a competition to see who could get the fastest cpu to run well.

the keyboard splitter is the same as for a ibm thinkpad, except your standard ps/2 keyboard is connected to the side labeled "mouse" and your ps/2 mouse is connected to the "keypoard" side. the i-o keyboard has no ESCAPE key that you need to get into the bios setup.

another thing about dealing with what you have and not going by "version" is not all i-o's of each "version" are the same. example: i have both a version 4 and a version 5 with Sharp displays, not Hitachi.

no, do not just buy parts and stuff them in. read about the mods, analyze what you have, determine what you need to change, determine what you need to buy to make the change, then go ahead.

since installing a hard drive is the most importand mod, start with the threads about the hard drive cable. the pins on the i-o ide connector are backward. you can use two standard ide cables and a standard to 2 1/2 inch adapter to make a cable to use a standard size ide drive until you get a laptop size hd. badflash will sell you a custom cable that is a good deal, since the connectors and cable are hard to find.

use the search function on this board. 38 pages going back two years is a lot to read through. probably some of the most knowledgable engineers and technicians have posted here. some of the old links may not work anymore, but the info is there.

if you have specific questions, e-mail me and i will help you find the answers.

do not forget, it is all about having fun.


oldman
02-12-2002 20:21:46

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) bitbyte
Profile
OK Cool.

What does the fact that there is no voice intro mean? Does that go away after it has "dialed home"?

Thanks for all the great info guy! Sorry it took me so long to respond, I got tied up with work stuff.

bitbyte

02-16-2002 19:55:27

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) shayde
Profile | Email
This is a puzzling one. It -might- be hacked (well, it -is- but I can't figure out how to re-hack it :)

This is a RISE CPU with a gooped BIOS. The previous owner hacked out a hole in the shielding and installed a CPU fan. It
also had a drive attached to it at some point (had the cable in it and everything). I have a fucntioning FreeBSD HD that I
use on one of my other machines, and I use it to load Jailbait images onto machines.

This unit comes up wth the big graphic IOPENER screen, but the Sandisk won't boot (comes up with an 'upgrading...') notification. The BIOS identifies itself as an IPC_EVAL bios (this has been flashed, right?) - but I can't get it to boot from the drive. No matter what I do, I get in capital letters DISK BOOT FAILURE!

Any suggestions?


Dave Belfer-Shevett -- Stonekeep Consulting -- http://www.stonekeep.com/
04-10-2002 09:44:20

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) *SF*
Profile
I assume you have tried changing Boot Order in BIOS.
04-10-2002 10:26:05

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) shayde
Profile | Email
Yup, tried that. That was my first guess.

The funky thing is you normally get something like

Primary Master IDE : SanDisk yaddadaadafingfong
Secondary Slave IDE: not found

When I hook up the drive, those don't even show up. In the BIOS screen, it just says "DISK BOOT FAILURE after saying its an IPC bios etc. VERY strange. I can show a snapshot of the screen (if I could find my camera) so folks could see...

I'm going to crack open one or two of my other systems, and see if I'm seeing a pattern with this drive or whatever. I'd love to not have to bag all the gooped machines. (My goal is to have a dozen running machines before July 1st. Its a long story, I'll post when I have the full schpiel :)


Dave Belfer-Shevett -- Stonekeep Consulting -- http://www.stonekeep.com/
04-10-2002 12:32:14

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) shayde
Profile | Email
No dice. A second machine shows roughly the same behavior.

Is it possible that some of the GOOPED units absolutely will not boot off anything but the Sandisk? I've ordered new BIOS's from Badflash, but that'll only help me for ungooped units.

-d, having a rough time.


Dave Belfer-Shevett -- Stonekeep Consulting -- http://www.stonekeep.com/
04-10-2002 13:29:07

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) *SF*
Profile
See the Link in My first post of this thread ?
Have You reviewed this ?
The Rise CPU needs a newer version of the QNX Flash Utility.
It should be easy to find.
If You can get this to Work, it could do all of your units.
04-10-2002 13:49:14

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) Wild_Pencil
Profile | Email
If you want to upgrade your BIOS on a Gooped machine, go to http://briefcase.yahoo.com/wild_pencil and download the contents of the IOpenerSandisks folder. Yahoo Briefcase requires a login -- the folders will show up empty if you're signed on as "Guest".

Concatenate the pieces together, and run bunzip2 to extract the image.

Dolly or DD the image onto a spare hard-drive, and hook it up to the IOpener. Set your Boot Order to "D,A, SCSI". Yes, you really do want the IOpener to boot from the Sandisk in this case. There's a bug in the Sandisk's Bootloader that assumes the first Hard-Drive is the Sandisk; and this is why the QNXFlash Hard-Drive method works. (The bug seems to have been corrected on v5's; but that's OK because there's no BIOS Goop on v5s.)

Now, this Image is a bit different from the original QNXFlash image. It's really a hacked up "AnyISP" Image. When it starts, you won't be doing the Tab-4444 thing to get a root-shell. Instead, you'll get a startup-menu that lets you go into Debug Mode or Single-User Mode. I recommend Single-User mode for the QNXFlashing; and Debug Mode to play around with the QNX O/S while it's running. Debug Mode also enables the Telnet Server in case anyone's interested.

The Upgraded BIOS files, the Easter-Egg BIOS, and the QNX Flasher are in /app/ztest/QNXFlash. It's the latest QNXFlash which should work with Rise and WinChip CPUs.

For the curious... there's an NVRAM dumper in /app/ztest/DSMWalker. Run ./dsmwalk_all | less to get a complete listing of all the configuration options that I've stumbled across.

-WP

04-10-2002 14:01:51

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) shayde
Profile | Email
Hmm. I can't get to Wild_Pencil's briefcase (the folders come up empty, and yes, I'm logged into Yahoo as myself :) Anyone have mirrors of the QNX images?

-d, feeling rejuvenated.


Dave Belfer-Shevett -- Stonekeep Consulting -- http://www.stonekeep.com/
04-10-2002 16:18:12

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) Wild_Pencil
Profile | Email
Yikes. Looks like I was sleeping when Yahoo Briefcase went to a subscription-based system. :-\

Slow mirror at http://www.lalee.net/products/iopener

The site's on a cable modem, and will be taken offline on April 13. That's the last IOpener I've got left to pack and move. It'll be a while 'til I get cable modem access in Vegas.

-WP

04-11-2002 15:43:11

New MessageRE:OK, I give up... what version is it? and before you start, I have searched and read. (modified 0 times) Wild_Pencil
Profile | Email
Ah, nevermind about the slow mirror... I jumped through Yahoo's hoops to make this content publicly available again.

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/wild_pencil

-WP

04-11-2002 16:02:15

Reply to Thread | Printer |
All times are PSTPowered by UltraBoard v1.62



Copyright © 2000, Netmake Inc. All Rights Reserved.
See Terms and Conditions for more information.




i-opener opener laptop notebook computer help drivers dll free windows dos repair fix linux mac macintosh 2000 95 98 nt pc configure hardware software sound video netscape explorer network networking lan wan software cmos fat bios printer card mouse modem ide scsi cd rom controllers scanner tape hard drive cgi scripts source code mp3