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NIC cards to work with WebPal
Another card made to work

New MessageNIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) Vit_sfba
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Hi,

I've made a simple modification to SOHOware PnP NIC (sold in surpluscomputers for $2.50), that forces it
to work with WebPal. As simple as it is, it still requires some soldering. If anyone interested, I can
post description of that modification.

Thanks,
Vit.

06-07-2003 04:43:21

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) bigbrd
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I'm interested. Please post. Thanks.

Bill

06-21-2003 10:31:22

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) m_bed
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Yes, please do post that info: all the "right" NICs were gone when I went to Halted. Unfortunately, I didn't know that, and only one of the ones that I bought then hoping to luck into the "right" one is even recognized by the driver.

And even that one doesn't work right: I get lots of error messages about "mismatched read pointers", "timeout waiting for Tx RDC", etc.

I can't tell whether it's because the card (an "E2003U-3.1", with a UMC UM9003F chip) is not-quite-compatible, or just plain flaky. I can see some activity (5-10 exchanges each time I try to boot and mount an NFS root) in the ifconfig stats on the server end, but the webpal winds up in a kernel panic because it can't even get to the point of contacting the nfs services via the portmapper.

So something "known compatible" looks pretty good at the moment.

For the benefit of the solder- and/or location-challenged, I'll grab a couple of extras. Email me if you want one. Keep in mind, though, that the postage will probably be $3-4, so you might be better off spending $5 for a local purchase if you can find one.

Ran

p.s. luban.org seems to have gone 404. Is this a temporary glitch?

06-24-2003 16:19:33

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) m_bed
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I dunno what Vit did, but it wasn't just changing the IRQ line: I dragged out my old DOS box and reconfigured the card, and it's still not recognized. So don't buy any unless he posts the mod.

Surplus Computers has two slightly-different models in stock (possibly three: the Sohoware boards have NDC stickers on them, and there's an MDC card at the same price). The "Rev B3" model appears to be identical in electronic design, but they respun the board to make it smaller, and replaced some through-hole caps with surface-mount ones. They also removed the free BNC tee that was in the "Rev B2" box.

Ran

06-26-2003 08:39:37

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) Vit_sfba
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Hi,

Haven't seen any interest in that for awhile
and become sorta lazy :)

The mod is possible for the card with RTL8019AS chip,
it includes removal of BNC connector and soldering in
2 resistors 10kOhm each. I'll post detailed data on my
Webpal page http://luban.org/Webpal this evening/nite.

Thanks,
Vit.

06-26-2003 10:30:12

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) bigbrd
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Interesting, the NIC cards that we used to use from Halted also
use the RTL8019AS chip. Thought this might be of use for
people searching for other boards to try and use with the
webpal.

Bill

06-26-2003 21:42:21

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) m_bed
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It's not surprising that the Halted boards use the same chip: the reading I've been doing says it was very popular.

Do the Halted boards also use the Myson MTD392 chip for the coax driver? Or does it even have one?

It sounds like the problem with the Sohoware boards may be in the media autodetection. I'll see if I can get it turned off on one of my boards (Not sure whether I can, because running the config program is a bit of an adventure: my old lunchbox machine has an EGA-res monochrome screen, and the config program is one of many that automatically displays in "color". There's a lot of guessing about what the partially-visible messages mean ;)

Ran

06-27-2003 00:48:50

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) m_bed
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Well, it's not the autodetect: neither forcing it to 10BaseT or forcing it to 10Base2 makes any difference. It still comes up "not found". So it looks like the hardware mod is necessary.

I just hope Vit hasn't been soldering wire to those chips with the .005" pin pitch again ;)

Meanwhile, I discovered that the old Pentium box that balked at running the DOS installation doesn't mind booting a DOS floppy that's already been configured. So I was able to run the config programs and actually see the displays. I managed to configure a NIC based on the UM9008, and got the same results I did with the one based on the UM9003: it's trying to communicate with the server, but keeps getting those read page pointer mismatches, and eventually panics.

So, it looks very much like the problem is not that the other NIC was flaky, but that the UMC chips are actually something like "NE1999.6"s, instead of "NE2000"s. At least as far as the "Linux driver+Webpal ISA" combination is concerned.

Ran

06-27-2003 17:16:10

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) bigbrd
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The boards we were using from Halted only have 10BaseT.
They are just the RTL8019AS chip, a socket for a boot
prom, crystal, eeprom, transformer and some misc
passive components.

Here are the issues with NIC cards:

1. Many PNP cards come up in PNP mode with
no addresses enabled until the PNP software
sets things. You'll need to find the standalone
config program for that chip and run it under
DOS and set things to be IO=300 IRQ=3 ENABLED.

2. The ISA bus on the webpal can do both 8 bit
and 16 bit read/writes. However, the ISA bus
lines that indicate which kind is being done
aren't implemented. This can confuse the NIC
chip so you are reading 8 or 16 bits and its
returning the wrong length. All NIC chips
and cards seem to handle this differently,
especially in how they try to detect 8 bit
vs 16 bit slots.

3. The ISA bus on the webpal doesn't support
any memory operations so if your board expects
to use memory buffers off the card, you are
out of luck.

Obviously the gods liked me, because when I
bought one of those cards at Halted, it just
worked! I didn't even realize at the time
how lucky I was until other tried other boards
and we ran into all these problems!

06-27-2003 18:51:47

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) bigbrd
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Oops, forgot another thing to watch for:

4. The "probing addresses" used for the webpal aren't
the 0x300, 0x320, etc that you'd normally use. Instead, you
have to add 0x80400000, e.g. 0x80400300, 0x80400320, etc.
So, if you trying to use the probing stuff in a
driver, make sure you change the source to replace the 0x300, etc.
with 0x80400300, etc...

06-27-2003 18:58:36

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) m_bed
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Thanks for the details, Bill.

Alas, an SMC driver is out of the question, since it's a "shared memory" type.

I think you've solved the mystery of one of Vit's added resistors: the "16-bit transfer" line on the RTL8019 is open, so it's probably decided it's in a 16-bit slot. Are all of the driver's accesses 8-bit? If so, just adding a pull-down to pin 1 on the chip (which, conveniently, has a via just a few mm away. Yay!) would force it into 8-bit mode. The data sheet recommends a 27K, but that's for going into a bus with multiple slaves, so 10K should be fine.

(Otoh, having 16-bit access might be nice. Especially if it could be used to reduce the CPU cycles for reading and writing packets. I wonder if it would be feasible to steal an address line, so that, say, 0x8300 would do a 16-bit I/O to port 300.)

I found a program called "ne2k-diag" on scyld.com that's supposed to be (among other things) an open-source replacement for the DOS-based config programs. It specifically mentions the RTL8019 in its comments.

Once I've got a system up and running, I'll build it for the webpal, and see if it can be used to eliminate the soldering requirement.

Ran

06-28-2003 00:02:51

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) Vit_sfba
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Hi,

First of all, I have to say, that there is no confusion about
8/16 bit bus on Webpal with regard to ISA bus boards. According
to ISA standard, the board has to pull down the signal SLOT16
down with a 30kOhm resistor, indicating the connection is a 8bit one.
16 bit capable slot has to tie up this line to +5V, indicating
it's as 16bit capable. Webpal does not tie this line to +5V, so
the board must assume it sits on a 8bit bus.

Of the 2 resistors I've mounted, one is to switch the board to
"jumper" mode, out of "jumperless/PnP" mode. It goes from +5V
to the 8019 chip pin 65, and yes, this one is kinda hard to
solder in, doable though.

The second one is to select IRQ3, as by default the chip uses
IRQ2/9. This one goes from +5V to IRQS0 (pin 78 of 8019 ),
and this gives us an ability to solder it to pin 3 of 9346 chip,
which is easy. That's it.

Oh, and you have to remove BNC connector as it does not fit into
Webpal.

Sorry pals, I've got a real hard time at work now, so my promised
page is delayed at least till next w/e, that'll be soon :)

Thanks,
Vit.

07-01-2003 09:40:00

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) Vit_sfba
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I have to add, if one has some x86 machine with ISA
and DOS lying around :) he may well use setup program
to switch the NIC from PnP mode into "jumperless" mode,
and set I/O address to 0x300 and IRQ to 3.

BNC has to be removed nevertheless, or Webpal case has
to be cut. As I decided to remove BNC, it took additional
2 minutes to me to solder these 2 resistors and not to
worry anymore :)

Thanks,
Vit.

07-01-2003 09:52:25

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) m_bed
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Thanks for the info, Vit.

I did configure a couple of the cards using the DOS utilities, but the driver doesn't recognize them. In desperation, I switched back to bigbrd's ROM, and discovered that he had routed some of ne.o's debugging messages to the console (Hooray for Bill!!). The driver claims that it's seeing a signature of "42 42" (instead of the "57 57" that the code says it wants). What's really bizarre is that neither card has a byte of 42 anywhere in its EEPROM, and ne2k-diag on the PC confirms that the signature is correct.

I think I'll go ahead and try the hardware mod on one of the boards (should be interesting: the smallest tip I have for my 20+ year old Weller is about the same diameter as the pin pitch. I'm pretty much a through-hole kinda guy...). Once I have a system up and running from a hard disk, I'll port ne2k-diag over, and see what it has to say about the unmodified ones.

Ran

07-05-2003 20:23:11

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) Vit_sfba
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My soldering iron is even bigger :)
And I've started doing that kind of stuff
back in 70s, so I understand you well :)

It's doable, beleive me, just put enough flux :)

Vit.

07-06-2003 18:44:54

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) m_bed
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My soldering iron is even bigger :)

Hey, don't be startin' a size war with me: I'll get out my gun

(Well, strictly speaking, it's my mother's gun, since it was part of my father's estate. I've forgotten what the rating on the heater is, but I think it puts more watts into those two little bulbs that bracket the tip than a Metcal puts into its heater...)

I botched my first attempt at modding the board, but learned a couple of things. First, the net is an even more bountiful source of misinformation than I thought: I managed to find an official Realtek datasheet for the 8019 that's incorrect (to be fair, it's marked "preliminary", but now I can't remember where I got it, to warn whoever's hosting it that its pinouts are bogus). Unfortunately, I didn't notice this until after I'd clipped pin 65 from the chip, and attached the resistor to pin 64 (I'd assumed you'd made a typo. Oops. Good thing the boards are only $3 a pop...).

The second conversion went okay, but I needn't have bothered: it works (or, rather doesn't work) just like the ones configured with the DOS app: Bill's kernel says "wrong signature", and scratchy's says "eth0 not found" (It might also mention the signature problem, but it would've scrolled).

I tried one of the UMC cards, and Bill's kernel recognized it. But pings gave the same sort of errors I got trying to NFS boot with Scratcy's ROM.

What PCB version(s) do you have? Maybe there's something different about mine (Rev .01).

Or maybe they're just cursed

Ran

07-07-2003 16:17:18

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) m_bed
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Well, it's official: my Webpals are cursed. :(

I've now tried well over 20 combinations of 3 different Webpals, 4 different kernels (Vit's, Bill's, Scratchy's, and my own), and half-a-dozen NE2000s of 4 different varieties (plus one SMC Ultra). The only variation in the results was that a couple of UMC cards managed to work horribly, instead of not at all.

Looks like I'll have to give this up until I can afford some more Webpals to try to find some that work.

Ran

07-08-2003 17:21:35

New MessageRE:NIC cards to work with WebPal (modified 0 times) Vit_sfba
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Hi,

Ran, pin 65 was not a typo, I mean it.
Look into the proper datasheet
http://www.luban.org/Webpal/rtl8019as.pdf

Vit.

07-09-2003 13:34:19

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