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On Board IDE Working

New MessageOn Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) greghol
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I had some time today to play with my Suerfer at work today. Placed the ferrite beads and plug connectors for the audio in/out and mic. Havnt tested it yet. Added the 10 pin header for the COM1 port, CN18. Added 2 pin power connector near the IDE connector for 5V.

Added 33 ohm resistor packs at the missing six locations near the IDE Conn. 1K ohm single resistors for the two locations. Soldered the 40 pin header in. Reselected the internal IDE interface from the BIOS.
reboot.... Bingo.. It worked. :) No reason why it shouldnt. Its nice to free up the slot for something else.

Now to do some research on the LAN section.
Based on the traces going to all of the RJ45 connector pins, it looks like it will be a 10/100 interface. I had an Idea that it was a AMD PCInet Plus IC but I think that may require a external PHY chip which the Webserfer dosnt have. Will look into it more tomarrow.

PS: I has to cut some metal so that the audio connectors would fit. Looks like the ones I used stand alittle taller.

Greg

04-26-2000 21:47:33

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) thnkgrn
Where was it that you put the 1k resistors? Also power for HD?
04-27-2000 08:43:40

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) Lumpy
Ok, WHERE did you get the resistor packs? part number? etc?
I have a friend that has a SMD rework station that will gladly do the work for me.
04-27-2000 10:02:34

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) simmons1
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Just a thought...

Are the resistor packs current limiting resistors that protect the system from plugging the cable/drive in backwards? And if so, could we use jumpers and just be careful with the cables?

04-27-2000 13:11:15

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) ryan
a resistor doesnt protect anything
other than to much current i hate to say.
you must be thinking of diodes
04-27-2000 13:28:31

New MessageIDE problem (modified 0 times) thnkgrn
Hi Everyone,

I am having a little problem with my hd. The 16bit controller (one of those earl model all in one IDE/floppy/IO types) and HD (485mb Conner) will boot in another system, but not in the Websurfer. I have disabled the on-board IO's (HD/serials, parallel). It recognizes the drive correctlly, but gives me a disk boot failure error when it comes up. I have even removed the 'disk on a chip', but no go.

Any ideas?

Here we go again... I-opener hacked, now the WS!!

Charles

04-27-2000 13:33:51

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) greghol
Profile
Thnkgrn: The 1k resisors are inbetween the resistor packs. R99 and R100 are 1k. Just a wild stab.

So: R99, R100 1k ohm
RN10,11,17,18,19,20 33 ohm

Greg

04-27-2000 13:39:40

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) Jopasm
Did you set the BIOS parameters correctly? You will probably need to do it manually - the settings should be written on the top of the drive.
04-27-2000 13:42:17

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) Jopasm
I don't think I was clear - did you set the parameters for the HD (Cylinders, heads, sectors) in the BIOS? Even though you aren't using the onboard controller you still need to do this. It probably won't autodetect the settings either.
04-27-2000 13:43:32

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) greghol
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Forgot the other questions.

I used some resistor packs from another mother board. The best bet is to check digi-key, www.digikey.com. Most likely you could just use wire and short across the resistor packs. It should work just fine.

The resistors are used for currect limiting. Not in the aspect of short circuit, ie backwards ide cable and so forth. Because a
22, 33 ohm resistor looks like a short depending on how you look at it and how much voltage is dropped across the resistor. The reason why resistors are there is because of RFI emissions for the most part. These units need to pass Class B FCC for in home use. Limiting the current slows the 1 to 0 and 0 to 1 transitions, (skew rate). Fast edges causes more RFI. This helps noise emissions.
Notice the series resistors next to the DIMM memory sockets also. ISA/PCI motherboard CONN. too.

Greg

04-27-2000 13:50:28

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) alcuin99
greghol:
where did you get an ide header? thanks!
04-28-2000 05:28:12

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) greghol
Profile
Well stock parts cabinet at home. :)
You should beable to get it most anywhere. ie Frys Electronic, Radio Shack, www.digikey.com, www.jameco.com, www.jdr.com
etc. Pull it from an old card.

Greg

04-28-2000 11:24:55

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) codeman
also add a 220ohm in r182 for hd light
yellow transfer led on front panel
its next to the front panel header
lower left hand corner of pcb

codeman

04-28-2000 12:36:46

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) mynnyme
OK everyone, I have a no go also. I bought the CompUSA ISA IDE controller (SKU# 234492). I disabled parallel port, serial port, and IDE HD blocks in BIOS. I did not do any resistor business. First I was getting hard drive failure, then I entered all the correct parameters for the drive, and I'm getting disk boot failure. This disk is a NT bootable though... I'm not sure if the HD is recognized at all, is there a way to check? Has anyone gotten the HD to work with the CompUSA ISA controller? Is it necessary to do the resistor soldering???? Thanks for info, I would really appreciate if someone can post detailed info on how to boot the HD with a ISA controller. Thanks!!
04-28-2000 13:26:15

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) alcuin99
Hi all,
...I really don't want to try and pull an ide header from my old motherboard or ide card, it's freaking hard! Please tell me there's a better way, thanks!!!!!
04-28-2000 13:28:49

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) _MiSFiT_
Just finished adding the internal 40 pin header and 2 1K SM resistors. (Just solder bridged all
the 33 ohm resistor networks, too lazy hehe)

Works great.

Anyone find the proper drivers for PCI bridge yet? I am wonderin once that is set DMA will be available to HD in windows, I dont have that option yet..

04-28-2000 14:20:56

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) alcuin99
wow, this is great, you just soldered all the resistor networks?

i presume that was just a 1-1 connection on each one? cool, I can do that... and the
two resistors. now all i have to do is figure out how to do that 40 pin header!!
_MiSFiT_, how did you do it? where did you get the pins? Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

04-28-2000 15:32:20

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) Meatballman
Can anyone post a pic of this hack?
04-29-2000 07:54:20

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) r1tual
By the way, what number markings did you resistor packs have on them? I have some from old dead motherboard, but want to make sure I use the right ones...
04-29-2000 11:33:25

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) spdracer5g
OK I got the header on and the 1k resistors in, now on the rn's I am not sure if I need to solder across the dash shaped pads so that they look like parralel lines or across them so that they are all connected together?
04-29-2000 12:40:19

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) Mach1
I got the onboard ide with just using buss wire as a jumper instead of the resistors. It seems to work fine, although I think it causes some HD line noise in the audio. I'm gonna try and use something to protect the audio portion from RF interference. Anyone else get alotta line noise with their own ide card?
04-29-2000 13:04:58

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) Juice
Okay gang!

Well I'm not a real hardware hacker. Not much soldering experience but for $49 it does seem worth it. Some basic questons. I have a 44 pin header. should first open up the IDE solder holes to get the heade in, then solder it to the back of the board? correct?

I don't think I van get the resisters packs mentioned. I'd like to try the wire discussed above. But should use the other two resisters non-packs)? Or are wires okay?

Someone above mentioned "solder bridged all the 33 ohm resistor network..." can you describe this process? i' not familar with the term.

Finally, what type (size) soldering iron should I be using to make this easier i just have your standard cheapo iron. I cant really see this thing being able to make those small isitor pack connections.


This has to be the cheapest computer hack ever.!!!

Juice!!

04-29-2000 14:12:32

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) hardware1
Radio shack has .100 headers, I would call, they don't carry a lot of stuff anymore. Digikey or mouser, but shipping will kill you.

Check your yellow pages for a electronics store near you. A nice PC repair guy at a store (compUSA!) might just give you one if you tell him what you are doing and give him this web site address in exchange!

You want a standard .100 center 40 pin (or more) "berg stick" header, just like on a IDE card. You might want to get a longer one and do the 5V while you are at it (cut a longer header to size and use the leftovers).

Going to post this in the "newbie" thread.

04-29-2000 14:13:38

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) Ben Byer
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Many of you have asked about the comments about bridging over the resistor packs for the IDE mod. With the caveat that I haven't so much as OPENED mine yet, this is what's going on:

A "resistor pak" is just one package that holds several (8,10,16,20...) parallel resistors-- they're popular because many computing applications require one resistor for each line on a bus, such as this one :)

The pads should look something like this

o o o o o o o o o o o o o

o o o o o o o o o o o o o (except more)

The other posters have been suggesting that instead of locating a resistor pak (something they're not likely to carry at Radio Shack), we can take advantage of the fact that the resistors are only 33 ohms each, a relatively low value. At that point, they're close-ish to a short circuit, and since everything in these things is over-engineered...

The suggestion is to just take little pieces of bare wire, or even just use plain solder if you can manage, to make parallel connections like this:

o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o

A good tool to use to do this soldering and the soldering of the 1K resistors would be a low-wattage (no more than 30 watts) iron, such as the "grounded low power" soldering iron (light blue handle) that Radio Shack sells. This rules out nearly all soldering "guns".

04-29-2000 17:11:56

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) Jack
Greg--are the resistor packs wired straight across (ie 4 resistors total) or do they have a common pin (ie 7 resistors total)?

Thank!

04-29-2000 23:38:51

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) greghol
Profile
Jack: Straight across, 4 wires per RN pack.

Greg

04-30-2000 00:57:11

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) hardware1
From another thread:

Pic of a WS with onboard IDE resistors soldered in:
http://linux-hacker.net/websurfer/images/ide-resistors1.jpg

I would use wirewrap wire if I were to short across them. The pic indicates which way the resistors would need to be shorted.

Easy way to tell, one side connects to the connector, the other to the controller, when you find 5 or more like that you get the general idea.

Look at "RN11" for a example, four traces come from the IDE connector, jumper them across to the controller side.

R99 and R100 are pull-ups to +5V, so anything between 1K and 20K would be OK for what we are doing. That would translate to "102" up to "203" in little tiny part numbers.

The packs can be from about 22 ohm to maybe 100? 33 was a good choice someone suggested, the IO uses 22 on their IDE. They add RFI "protection" and maybe if you plug it in backwards with power on it will save you.

That translates to "220" up to "101" in little tiny part numbers.

You can find these on old dead $1 swapmeet hard drives and boards if you look. That is why I am saying that the values can vary, it's not all that important since the cable run is very short. This is all 5V logic signals.

The ones you see are 33 and 1K, but engineers have this stuff laying around.

COM1 is attached and working in the pic, with the addition of U10, it's the same as U17. Same pinout at the connector as a normal serial.

04-30-2000 01:55:31

New MessageRE:On Board IDE Working (modified 0 times) Baby-Bop
This is great news. Now how about the RJ45 jack? The box manufacturer's documentation makes it sound like it might be a 10/100 jack - that would be way cool! Anyone had any luck getting it to work yet?
04-30-2000 21:25:31

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